Brief Report on the Survey weekend

[John Nicholson]

Tim Watts and I went on the course in South Wales on laser surveying last weekend.  It was excellent!

It is a long time since I have had to sit down for two whole days and absorb intense information, but I am very glad that Tim was there to master the techy stuff.  I am very impressed how quickly he can work on his laptop with completely strange software.

The laser gun Tim had has now been professionally fitted up as an accurate survey tool, and it seems it is now talking to his portable number cruncher.  Our next task is to actually survey a simple cave system and post the results on a universal depository that has been set up for all cave and mine data.

I was also overwhelmed by the size and magnificence of the South Wales caves.  We only went into the first few chambers of Ogof Ffynnon Ddu, but a vast map on the wall of the study room showed the full extent of the system, and there is another just as big on the opposite wall Dan yr Ogof.  It makes Poachers seem so small.  These caves are also fully walk in and walk about.  Ian would love them because the floors are relatively flat and the lower areas fully washed out. I had no idea there were caves like this in the UK.

I was also very impressed by the club hut - a row of nine railway cottages.  Plan to go there again for a few days and actually explore the caves with Bella.  Anyone else interested?

PS  There is also a way to virtually explore this magnificaent cave at http://ogof.net/

[Doug Thompson]

Yes, I am intertested, :woohoo:  :woohoo:  :woohoo:

[Danny Sutton]

back in work now so other than weekends, i cant do anything.

Theres LOADS of caves like that in the UK

[John Nicholson]

Have you been there before Doug?  Ogof Ffynnon Ddu.  It would be great for us if there was someone who knows their way around the place.

[Doug Thompson]

[quote="JohnNicholson" post=11712]Have you been there before Doug?  Ogof Ffynnon Ddu.  It would be great for us if there was someone who knows their way around the place.[/quote]
Sorry John, I think I have been there, :S  but I dont remember anything about it.
by the way, if you are in my area anytime the rocking chair is more or less done.

[Les Williams]

OFD is the finest cave in the UK  B)

Obviously not as good as the caves on Mendip though...  :whistle:

[John Nicholson]

Other cavers in the club hut asked if I had been to Mendip.  We will come there one day Les to be sure.  There is always so much to juggle in life.

[mick murphy]

high John i have donr dan-yr-ogof its a walk in walk out for the show cave but not for  the cavers flat out crawls 100 yds deep canals and all your party will be required to show bca insurance and under 18 not allowed

[mike leahy]

did'nt you get lost and nearly die last time you wher in south wales  :evil:  :evil:

[mick murphy]

right did not get lost but remember the dinghy bursting in the canals
and shimming up the stal in the roof

[Tim Watts]

think it was a bit of an eye opener for poor John! ;-)

[John Nicholson]

[quote="timwatts" post=11735]..... an eye opener for poor John! ;-)[/quote]

'Poor John' had frightfull Neuralgia over the weekend, but thankfully feel much better now.

Until now I have thought that OHA was one of the longest caves in Britain, (if not the longest), and only a few cavers have ever managed to get to the very end (including Doug, Tim, Mike and others so recorded on video).

So can you imagine why I felt quite sick inside to see a whole wall covered in sprawling tangled and twisted cave mappage.

I now feel much humbled that the caves we have been brought up on are so pixy wicxy small, but I do still love them too.

When I go to any future caving event I must be careful not to say I come from North Wales, because it is like going to Brands Hatch in a pedal Noddy car.

[Ali Wiseman]

[quote="JohnNicholson" post=11745]When I go to any future caving event I must be careful not to say I come from North Wales, because it is like going to Brands Hatch in a pedal Noddy car.[/quote]

We have some awesome bloody mines though... who needs caves... nasty, wet crawly things, caves...  :evil:

Did this Surveying include a DistoX? If so, I may have to bug You to pass some knowledge on, as I plan on getting one after Xmas.

[Les Williams]

Not sure you will get a DistoX after Christmas, unless you have one reserved somewhere as there are none left and no components for any more.

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=13606.msg186087#msg186087

 

[John Nicholson]

This is a big worry Les.
 
I asked many times during the survey weekend if we will be able to obtain more Disto A3 and the add-on boards.  It seems not.  But VERY fortunately, Timm Watts has got the last board ever made, and already has bought a Disto A3 and the PDA.  This was all soldered up by 'Footleg' at the course.  So UCET does have one working kit.  (It did let us down on the practical part of the course, so we had to manage using a different kit, but all seems well now)

But the whole concept seems morribund if there are no more add on boards and even the parts can no longer be obtained.

However, I feel that brilliant though this initial system is, there are better ways of working.  The Disto-PDA technolgy is a long and tedious way to make a skeletal grid of a cave system, and the final maps still rely upon the skill and endurance of the surveyor in drawing the finer details on the slippery PDA screen underground, and then re-interpreting them on a graphic map on a PC in the warm.  I got very cold whilst surveying (even though I was doublly dressed), and that was in a dry flat cave.  You just don't move around enough whilst fiddling with electroinics.

I would like to work with others to bring forward a new approach using component parts now available (RS, Maplin etc) so the data is collected directly in the cave by a constantly spinning form of disto.  I am very impressed by the virtuial images posted by Nottingham Cave Survey, and we saw a similar survey displayed of an amazing cave produced by a very expensive laser scanner (£60K plus).

I am sure there will be a boffin build alternative solution that can be concocted at home, and I am sure there is the technical expertise available amongst our caver members.  It is a matter of contacting the right people with the relevant sectors of knowledge.

One thing that did impress me about the Survey Weekend is that the cost was £10.00.  I was expecting more like £100 - or more, for the quality information provided by the five experts who ran the course, plus the array of computer equipment they dbrought along. I am assured that the course was strongly supported by the British Cave Association (or similar).  

If they support this course then maybe they would support a similar project to advance the available technology.  What has been achieved in terms of software development, and setting up a platform for the publication and exchange of data is an excellent framework for cave mappers using any form of collection technology.

From a Health & Safety perspective, as well as form mapping biology and bats etc a good 3D cave mapping system is very important.  The cost would be enormous if done by any other way than through the enthusiasm of amateur cave mappers.