The Unknown

[Ryan B.Taylor]

hi there,my names Ryan,I live in Nova Scotia,Canada,and am somewhat new to caves.Ive done some caves in the past,but due to the failure of this Canadian province,caving is so new you only hear about it on the internet,TV or movies around here.There are only 3 known caves in the province,with well over 100 more kept secret.And dont even ask about mines-over 7000 of them,maybe more-unexplored.
 Myself and some friends have taken it upon ourselves to find these caves,explore them,map them,and share them with likewise responsible cavers.
 Would there be any advice from the elite caver for the exploration of new systems?

[mike leahy]

hi ryan
 you will find it easier to locate most cave/mine entrances in snowy conditions as the temperature under ground will be warmer than above so you quite often find entrances because of the lack of snow around them .its also very important to let some one know your location and have a call in time (aprox). there is some really good survey equipment out there these days , i'll ask tim to give you some details of some survey equipment. have you done any srt(single rope technique) before . if not i would strongly advise it .a good start would be to look at the complete caving manual , by andy sparrow and srt by troll

[Ian A]

Welcome to the website Ryan ... please use it for everything you need and when you get your own up we can share info :woohoo:

Ian

[Ryan B.Taylor]

I havent had a chance to try SRT beyond a quick demonstration unfortunately,and as my province is undeveloped in regards to most adventure sports,theres not many places to learn-although there are individuals trained in SRT that dont advertise.
 Gear has to be ordered off EBay or such places,theres nothing within probably 600 miles that even offers any climbing gear,let alone caving gear.I asked about caving coveralls/overalls in several places,the store reps looked at me like i was a hobgoblin or murderer!SRT Gear-OMG when i mentioned that,they thought it was some specialized super gear found only in NASA rockets.You see my problem here yet lol?
 As for caves and mines,some are known,but the federal government treats them like the AIDs epidemic,something evil to be feared and not to poke around in.There are estimated 2000 openings(mines and caves) in Nova Scotia that are accessible in the fashion of the places you guys go,the rest are pit mines,trench mines,or super dangerous gypsum karst caves along the banks of muddy rivers,I have a pic and video somewheres of a place called Hells Gateway,inside is riverbank mud 3o feet deep,to fall into it would be deadly.Some of my new formed caving group-East Coast Crawlers-have contacts and info regarding other cave systems that are safe,and unexplored.imagine-going in and finding cave paintings,or skeletons(the Hells Angels motorcycle gang has used caves and mines in NS to dump dead bodies in,including the 1st cave we are doing on the 26th),or gold.other tales tell of Glooscap-who may have been Prince Henry Sinclair,Earl of Orkney and member of Knights Templar circa 1300s-having used caves for residence and people having come across metal doors and artifacts inside of them.Ever hear of Oak Island and Captain Kidd?Thats 120 km away from my door,so we have plenty of mysteries that involve caves here.I myself found a type of glacial cave that has stirred up a hornets nest here,it looks like one of the Celtic/Egyptian tombs,and housed Mi'kmaw indians(and rumored to be a burial place of a knight).You can see that there is much to be seen,found,and shared from my area!
 In relation to gear,access to caving suits is currently non existent,but there is plenty of military surplus here.I was looking at a few kinds of drysuit coveralls,and some synthetic fibre suits similar to the Warmbac ones you guys have,what recommendations would you have in regards to narrowing down the search,until I can find a proper suit in a few months?Also,gear like caving/climbing helmets and stuff is in the same boat as the suits,but we've found some decent fitting sports helmets and fitted some lights(waterproof,shockproof,can be run over by a car LED lights called Energizer Hardcase)to them with carefully added straps to hold lights so they dont slip.Petzl is our goal in regards to this though,but again,EBay or online ordering is our only choice.Boots are easy to find here as there ais a lot of fishing in the area,I have a decent pair of wellies as they are referred to.Gear is a work in progress,any input in regards to this would be fantastic.Thanks for letting me ramble on!
Permission to chuckle at the n00bs in caves granted lol

[Ryan B.Taylor]

And about the snow Ian,the ground here freezes solid under the 4 feet of snow we get each winter,even entrances freeze up and get covered over under he harsh Canadian winter.When it comes to the tales of winter in Canada,its basically true.
When I go hunting caves and mines I never go in alone,that is inviting a Floyd Collins type of thing.I always have GPS and at least 1 person has the coords and return time.As a hunter of these places and other things,I have a set of rules that must followed,or else risk trouble.
1.Never go into spots solo
2.Always provide GPS,map,and time of return to at least 1 person
3.Always carry extra gear in case
4.Always have food/water on hand
5.Canadian caves/mines house bears,be prepared
6.Weather changes fast here,make sure I know whats coming before I go.
7.The folly of most adventurers is going further than they should when they should be starting the return trip and burning themselves out.You can always return to the same spot again.
8.Plan,plan,and plan some more.know who,what,when,where and why before leaving your house before entering any unknown place.
9.the quality and condition of gear is essential,keep it clean and in good shape,the smallest piece might be what saves your life.
10.Always have fun,at the end of the day,take time to unwind,whether its a snooze,meal,drink or smoke.This is essential for any adventuring persons morale.

[Joel Colk]

Hi Ryan and welcome to UCET

Those rules that you mention seem to be fairly standard in our caving community, apart from the one about bears. The closest thing we have to a bear over here is Marty, and he doesn't go into caves :cheer:

Just had a look at this website; http://www.cancaver.ca/

Seems like you have some fantastic caves over there, looking forward to hearing some trip reports or photos from you .

Your talk of ice and snow reminded me of something i saw on UK caving a few years back link
Although it's a Mine, there's some interesting pics towards the bottom of Ice formation pics.

[Ian A]

Ryan,

What Mike is alluding to with the snow is;

The temperature undergound is a constant, circa, 7 degrees (allowing for draughts) and is unaffected by the outside temperature. Since heat rises, if there is a subterranean passageway (cave or mine) that is coming to surface (even if the exit is only a percolation)it is impossible for there to be snow or ice at that point and you will have just discovered a cave or mine (easy to see if the landscape is covered in snow)

In unexplored terrority like yours this would be very exciting :woohoo:

Ian

[Ryan B.Taylor]

The insides of the mines and caves here are quite warmer inside than he outside,but the temperature here is a static -2 Celcius to +3 Celcius unless its summer,but even with those temperatures,things just melt and refreeze even worse-ice tends to go quite a ways into the caves.Heres a pic of some ice in a cave I was in to give you an idea.
As well,pics 3 and 4 are of the Vault Cave,one of only 2 of its kind in the world,and one of the most dangerous.A split in the basalt bedrock,it is unknown how far in it goes or where.Other pics show the snow we get,on one of my searches.

[Ryan B.Taylor]

x

[mike leahy]

hi ryan
 try utube for srt practice. give you an idea what your letting yourself in for , personally its the only way to get about in big vertical systems. be careful about the gear you by on ebay make sure its not to worn . a lot of guys who work on the oil rigs have to get rid of there gear every year so you can get some good stuff. like i said before the two books i mentioned before you should be able to get on ebay ( there like rocking horse shit ) but keep looking and they should come up now and then

[Ryan B.Taylor]

Heres the pics I tried to send earlier.
1st 2 show example of the ice we get in cave entrances.
next 3 show the Vault Cave
Last shows rediculous snow fall.

[Ryan B.Taylor]

Trying to upload pics ,wont let me.It actually reset my ethernet!

[test]

A quick test to double check that a registered but non UCET member (i.e. Ryan) can post photos.And the answer is.......yes!

Ryan, I assume you're using the attachements box towards the bottom of the edit window. then 'add file' then either click submit (or if you want it inserted into the text like this then click 'insert'

(Josh takes Daddy Caving!)


Give it another go and let me know. Thanks for being my official non-ucet test dummy!

I trust you got my email - welcome :-)

Tim Watts (Looged in under test account)

[Ryan B.Taylor]

Vault cave

Ice in cave mouth,entrance almost blocked

Snowfall

A nice view

[mike leahy]

let me try ?