Thurs trip 23/02/12

[evan john]

I agree with Frank - there is a fookin big lay by down the road, why not use that, there is a tendancy lately to over complicate trips arrangements.

Adit now have organised their own trip, we are merely using it as an opportunity to say hello as Marty is showing them the way.

[John Nicholson]

Thanks for explaining that this was Marty's Party.  I had understood that UCET was hosting the Additers.  I will still make for the Druid, and then proceed to the Layby, picking people up as required.  I do agree that we should park (and change) at the layby, even if we do meet the new folk at the Druid - it being so much easier to find.

[Joel Colk]

Not happy with my photo's from tonight. Didn't really have time to get into it.

Like this one though, and i didn't even take it!

[Ian A]

Who went and what did I miss

[John Nicholson]

So many people came that we lost count.

Some very interesting people from Addit Now and North Wales Caving Club, who shared stories of their trips.

Lots of people did the SRT loop and got wet over the knees.

After some difficulty finding the entrance to the top level in the dark, I went along to the lower chamber to meet a puffing Marty at the top of the SRT drop. I then tried to get to the place where you took me to scramble up the 'Spider's Ladder' but every tunnel I went along seemed to come to a dead end.  It was really puzzling because it seemed the shape of the system had changed since the trip with you a few months ago. But eventually with agile help from our acrobatic chairmen, we found the link further into the mountain from the lower chamber where the polished marble is.  Very much enjoyed the scrambling, and feel much more confident now on what Mike calls 'stairs'.

I can't help notice that the whole system seems to be 70% of the size I remembered from my first trip. Got home 1.30 am.

Very good to re-visit the Glan afterwards. John Crazy and Mrs Crazy came along to stir up the conversation.  

Very sorry to hear that you have been not well, and that your holiday plans were affected.  What bad luck!  Hope you will be feeling better soon.

[mike leahy]

[quote="JohnNicholson" post=4920]

Lots of people did the SRT loop and got wet over the knees.[/quote]

3 peeps did the srt trip.

[John Nicholson]

Where did all the others go to then?

[mike leahy]

[quote="JohnNicholson" post=4924]Where did all the others go to then?[/quote]
they went in the lower level first by mistake so by the time they got up to the top level it had already been de-rigged

[Tim Watts]

[quote="mike leahy" post=4923][quote="JohnNicholson" post=4920]

Lots of people did the SRT loop and got wet over the knees.[/quote]

3 peeps did the srt trip.[/quote]

4 including you!

[John Nicholson]

So is it possible to climb without any ropes from the middle level to the top level?
By 'middle' level I mean the level which is accessible through a small hole into a lined passageway with some sort of doorway about 10feet inside.

[mike leahy]

[quote="JohnNicholson" post=4932]So is it possible to climb without any ropes from the middle level to the top level?
By 'middle' level I mean the level which is accessible through a small hole into a lined passageway with some sort of doorway about 10feet inside.[/quote]

NO

[Tim Watts]

John,

for info.

(NB: non of the ropes are in situ)

From the top level, we dropped down a first short abseil (using our first short rope) - which isn't free hanging and if your life depended on it you _could_ get yourself up and down rope free.

We then moved forward a short distance and anchored a much longer 50m rope. A short abseil down (perhaps only 5m  ??) landed us next to a pack wall.

From here we re-attached the remaining (approx 45m) of the same rope to a scaffold bar that is in situ, dropping a further (approx) 45m down a steep drop - its not quite freehanging and (imagine a almost vertical 'tube') you could bridge your body across the 'hole' to wedge arms, legs and back using opposing forces to attempt to make a controlled ascent or decent (but it would be foolish to try)!

The last few meters however become nearer to 90degrees steep and rather than being into a vertical tube (which could feasibly be bridged) it opens up into a larger chamber - so you'd be totally stuck (or more to the point completely unstuck!) without being on a rope here!

At this point the 50m rope length runs out JUST about at ground level - fortunately enough!

(Note: obvious reason why you ALWAYS tie a figure of 8 knot in the end of a rope and why you ALWAYS have ascending as well as descending equipment with you)!

At the bottom of this rope you are greeted by the remains of a truck sat on some rails. Passing the truck, the 'passage' goes from being a 'chamber' to becoming a stooping manway, which is filled thigh-deep with water. It then rises a few feet such that it is dry but with less headroom - short crawl - then some scrambly easy free climbs.

The next challange is a tougher climb of approx 3/4m and while this 'could' be climbed in an 'emergency' (the are some old rails propped up to assist) we had arranged for Joel (with the middle group party) to install a short (the third) rope for us. Up this we climbed, the last one of us derigging this short rope to carry out. From here further 'free' climbing and scrambling brought us up (using old sections of rail track as aids) to the level of the middle adit (the one with the door that you refer to) - and out of this we exited the mine.

Of the 4 who started the SRT trip, Mike remained at the top of the 45m pitch until we'd all gone down and then derigged the 45m hang, then climbed the 5 meters top section of the rope, which he then dropped all the way down to us (past the pack wall and scaffold bar) - for me to retrieve at the bottom (by the truck) to put in my rope bag and carry out.

He then climbed up the short (first) rope and derigged that - carrying that one out himself via the same (top level) entrance we entered by.

There be the logistics of the trip!

Of the three levels (or at least the 3 entrances) the Bottom is the entrance by the road - no longer accessible at all, the Middle is the one you described and the Top is the one we went in via - i 'think' you may have gone in here after doing the middle level and spoken to Mike who was on his way out via here after derigging (some did but i'm not sure who did what by the end of the night!)

[John Nicholson]

Thanks Tim for such a detailed description of the lower levels of Belgrave.  The original reason for my question was because I can see many passages leading downwards from the top level, and I wondered if any of these provided a less steep connection to the middle level.  It seems that the only way to get from top to middle is via the flooded bottom level and up a short tricky ascent.

But your detailed story reveals something even more amazing to me...
When I set off with Briony along the top level I was unable to find the way to the back.  Then Mike appeared and did some nifty climbing up some steep and narrow stopes dissappearing for some time but then reappearing to show us the route to the end of the level by going down past the pollished marble slab.  I had no idea that Mike had also climbed down and then up the system to drawn back the rope.  Mike must have been exhausted - but showed no sign of it!  The man is a monkey!

I originally went in to the top level some while ago with Ian.  Others did the SRT round trip.  Ian introduced me to what I call 'the Spider's Ladder', and I very much wanted to re-visit it.  I also had the chance to crawl into the the middle shaft and see the lined passageway, but I did not venture any further than the door.

Although much of the Belgrave system is inacessible for non-SRT people, I do like the top level of Belgrave, especially the scrambles at the end.  I really enjoyed the trip!  It was great to hear Mike and Briony comparing their experiences in Titan.

[Ian A]

The higher level of Belgrave has other levels above too which can be accessed by climbing up the winze which has water running down (and down again to near the marble)