Nadolig + Poachers - December 8th 2012

[Danny Sutton]

Visited with Dylan (ucet) and AndyJ (CPC)

At a lose end and in need of something to do, last min plans were made to go caving
welooked at the weather and it looked as if yorkshire and derbyshire would be out
of the question, this left wales..

After asking a couple of questions on here, Dylan volunteered to show us around, Andy
picked me up at 8am and we headed over to wales, we had arranged to meet Dylan
at McDonalds in mold at around 9.15, we arrived a little early which gave me time
to make full use of the McDonalds facilities.

Once Dylan turned up we had a quick chat about where would be the best place to
park up, we decided on the caravan park, we got to the parking area, kitted up and
headed off to Nadolig. At this point, i must say thanks to Dylan, if he hadn't of
come we wouldn't of found it in a million years.




Once we found the way in, it was time to climb down







Now, I took 2 shots in the cave, neither of which were any good, but as soon as we
started to make our way through, it was obvious that a pelli case, tripod, bag and lighting
was a mistake.

Also I am now seaking legal advice due to the gross missrepresentation i feel Ian
gave in this video here - http://ucet.org.uk/index.php/forum/23-videos/7918-christmas-cave-ogof-nadolig
In that video the place looks fun and fairly clean. it isnt, not with a bag anyway.
Dylan and Andy did seem to enjoy the place, they also took great pleasure in laughing
at me and choice selection of words that i used for the whole trip.






Once out, i was glad, never been so happy in my life.

We then headed over to Poachers, via the river that was in flow.



we got to poachers, rigged an electron and safty line for those who wanted to use
it and down we went. the camera came out...



That was the ONLY picture i took, the camera got put in the bag and i left the bag
here, what a sh!t hole. at one point i think i was carrying my own body weight in
mud, it was that bad i had to go and wash it of in the streamway.

If the club takes noob's in here I am amazed they ever come back, ok it's not
technical, but it's just a underground mud pit, not many features, poor selection
of formations and if they dont have an oversuit on, god knows what state they end
up in, it's not even sporting, just reminds me of a really muddy and wet minera.

Not sure how much of the place we saw, we were in there a few hours, i started to
get the flat battery warning on my lamp, my spare was in the car, and to be fair
i had had enough, we headed back out, de-rigged and went down to the river to wash our gear off.




so all in all, i now know i HATE poachers, it needs more abseils, more water and a lot less mud.

[mike leahy]

if you think that of poachers you'll never come out alive in oha :woohoo:  :woohoo:  :woohoo:  thars got PROPPER mud

[Danny Sutton]

I wouldnt mind the mud, but the mud in here is pointless, it needs more abseils, water, formations.

[Ian A]

Never believe anything you see in Ian's videos - they are never representative  :huh:

Poachers (of course is a sh!t hole) but is also a mine (pardon the pun) of geology. The "mud" is glacial silt and the cave was formed before the last two glacial periods (at least) and there is evidence of multi-period floors.

The passage you photographed yourself in is an isosceles (spelling?) passage and can only form where the rate of erosion is exactly equal to an increase in flow of water (which would be very slow but steady). In this case, the thawing action of the glaciation above. It is extremely rare and there are (reportedly)only two in the UK - one of which you were stood in.

There are many other geological wonders down there too which I expected you missed as you were quite clearly too excited with all the mud  :side:

Ian

[Danny Sutton]

On a serious note Ian, i'm sure there is a hive of geological wonder in there, it just wasnt any of the things i look for in a cave, i'm not to interested in the history, i just like them to either be sporting or photogenic.

[Ian A]

"Sporting" you will find next door in OHA (100 yards from Poachers) - that will take you 10-12 hours from start to finish if you do it all and it has every challenge imaginable (including a number of near death experiences in ways you might not imagine)

It's not photogenic though - expect your camera to be destroyed within the first 100 yards lol

 :oops:

Ian

[Danny Sutton]

i expect you need to do than when the water from the river isnt running in through the lid though?

[mike leahy]

[quote="Mad-Dan" post=11891]i expect you need to do than when the water from the river isnt running in through the lid though?[/quote]

 yep

[Ian A]

[quote="Mad-Dan" post=11891]i expect you need to do than when the water from the river isnt running in through the lid though?[/quote]

That does not happen often - it would be interesting to see it just afterwards and to note where the water actually flows - I don't think it will hit the "tube" that we crawl along within the first 100 yards ...

[Les Williams]

[quote="Mad-Dan" post=11889]On a serious note Ian, i'm sure there is a hive of geological wonder in there, it just wasnt any of the things i look for in a cave, i'm not to interested in the history, i just like them to either be sporting or photogenic.[/quote]

But once you hit the river in Poachers, downstream is very sporty and quite wet and clean. You'll come back spotless, but then you'll need to exit back through the muddy bit again...   :evil:

[Doug Thompson]

[quote="LesW" post=11896][quote="Mad-Dan" post=11889]On a serious note Ian, i'm sure there is a hive of geological wonder in there, it just wasnt any of the things i look for in a cave, i'm not to interested in the history, i just like them to either be sporting or photogenic.[/quote]

But once you hit the river in Poachers, downstream is very sporty and quite wet and clean. You'll come back spotless, but then you'll need to exit back through the muddy bit again...   :evil:[/quote]

Where was the clean bit again, :dry:

[Les Williams]

[quote="Doug" post=11898][quote="LesW" post=11896][quote="Mad-Dan" post=11889]On a serious note Ian, i'm sure there is a hive of geological wonder in there, it just wasnt any of the things i look for in a cave, i'm not to interested in the history, i just like them to either be sporting or photogenic.[/quote]

But once you hit the river in Poachers, downstream is very sporty and quite wet and clean. You'll come back spotless, but then you'll need to exit back through the muddy bit again...   :evil:[/quote]

Where was the clean bit again, :dry:[/quote]

Everything downstream is clean, but somewhat aqueous. I was spotlessly clean after climbing down the waterfalls...
Unfortunately the only way out is back through the mud...

[Tim Watts]

I was brave (stupid?) enough to enter OHA 12 months or so ago when we'd had a period of abnormally high precipitation (The Alyn as high as i've ever seen it since living next to it) and the entrance crawl was 'worryingly' wet with a sustained torrent clearly seen to be flowing into it which would appear to fill it quite rapidly. I was with a couple of established climbers (lads from work that i've climbed with in the past and whom I considered big and ugly enough to look after themselves) so after describing the 'normal', the 'current' and the 'potential worst case' we decided to press on. - Took them as far as the cliff and had a play on the ropes with them which was kinda the purpose of the trip. With a feeling of impending doom nagging me at the back of my mind that we'd never get out again. However on the return trip, despite the continued torrent racing down the entrance(exit) crawl it hadn't filled any deeper and was obviously draining via the very definite but entirely un-fathomable routes into the 'undoubtable' lower (and undiscovered) active streamway that runs under the known cave. One small active sink was obvious (by the sucking, slurping and obvious high flow rate which caused a vortex as is sank ever downward). This I marked it with a scratch on the rock above for future reference but upon investigation on subsequent trips it appears to be a fracture of such small proportions that short of major (explosive) digging is unlikely to yield any reward.....

My humble opinion (rose coulered glasses at the ready) is that there is a 'f'ing massive' lower Alyn Gorge system that waiting to be discovered and just needs a shit load of work to bust into. Lets face it, there's a sizeable active sink into it within yards of the OHA entrance chamber (just off the normal route) and the streamway can be heard in numerous place throughout OHA and is then witnessed clearly by the immediate disappearance of the sizeable waterfall in to the floor of the OHA terminal chamber for the few of us who have ever been there.

An undoubtedly significant, coordinated and sustained effort would be certain to deliver rich rewards. Its just another one of many on the to-do list!!

[Ian A]

[quote="timwatts" post=11923] that there is a 'f'ing massive' lower Alyn Gorge system that waiting to be discovered [/quote]

.... There MUST be something and it is just as likely large as not.  No point me mentioning that OHA is SSSI or even that we do not (and never have) had possession of anything that makes a bigger bang than a paper snapper  :dry:

[Tim Watts]

i never said we did ;-) But if we play the game theres no reason why it shouldn't be granted.