Grand Turk and the Secret passage

[mick murphy]

this is not what i remember you go pass cabinshaft away from the carpark and through the last gate and on the same side as cabin shaft close to the path there is a clump of silverbirch trees and in between there is the shaft it may be covered over so this mat still be open at the bottom as it is not the one you have in your photo,s I may need to take you over.mick

[Dave Tyson]

I am sure you are right Mick, the shaft must be fairly close to the gate as I measured the BCRA grade 5 NWCC have on the CCC site using the bat castle on the whim shaft (Ragman vein) as a reference point (SJ2568351786) and that gives a gridref for the footway as SJ2618151724. This is within 35m of the shaft I descended near the lime kiln, but could be closer to the main path.

Interestingly there is a note on the NWCC website:

http://www.northwalescavingclub.org.uk/nwccproject9.htm

which states "OLD1 Grand Turk passage was re-discovered by NWCC after penetrating a boulder choke reached from Cabin Shaft (a more direct entrance is now available). Care should be taken with collapses in parts of the old workings". There is a picture of a guy on the high level traverse above the diesel stopes. I have been over this and then headed up some ropes towards the upper levels - but I guess there may have been a way on to the top of the 'shaft of interest'. The fact that NWCC state that there is a more direct route implies that there must be a surface connection.

I have some annotated plans of the workings from Cris - these are based on the abandonment plans from the records office. What would be really nice would be to superimpose an OS grid as that would make it easier to work out what shaft is what. But that needs a good fossick around with a good GPS to get the location of all the shafts and (more importantly) be able to match some of the shafts to the plans. Maybe a winter job when the vegetation has died down.

Dave

Dave

[Les Williams]

The more direct route will be the one up in the woods that drops in directly by the shaft into the crawl to Grand Turk. I was on the trip when that entrance was dug open from the inside. From memory it is above the lime kilns, in the woods. We called it the great escape entrance as we popped up in the woods like coming out of a secret tunnel. We went in via Cabin Shaft and had to dig through a run in to get there so were quite pleased to find a short cut out.

[Dave Tyson]

[quote="LesW" post=40422]The more direct route will be the one up in the woods that drops in directly by the shaft into the crawl to Grand Turk. I was on the trip when that entrance was dug open from the inside. From memory it is above the lime kilns, in the woods. We called it the great escape entrance as we popped up in the woods like coming out of a secret tunnel. We went in via Cabin Shaft and had to dig through a run in to get there so were quite pleased to find a short cut out.[/quote]

Les, a few of questions.

On the route from Cabin shaft you head round the back of boundary shaft and along a convoluted route, which IIRC involves a short rope or ladder pitch and a squeeze through natural. You end up halfway up a massive stope with a long scaffold pipe to bridge the gap (complete with traverse protection ropes, cross this and then I think you follow round to the right to another stope with a rope heading diagonally upwards - probably about 30m. Do you recall going up this? I asked Dewi about it and he said it led to a dangerous collapse, but I was dubious as a lot of effort has been made in bolting the route.

When the entrance was big dug from the inside was this vertical or horizontal and do you know if they were capping it? Was it close to the path that runs above the kiln or did you have to bash through trees/bramble. (The reason I ask is there are a lot of bumps and hollows around there and even a block search of a 200m x 200m square would take a while). I know its a big ask for you to try and remember the details from some time ago, but it would help limit the search. We could, of course, just maypole the shaft and work our way out - or I could retrace my original trip.

Having a entrance at this end would be really helpful in getting down to the diesel stopes as it avoids the long drag from cabin and also makes a nice through route for Grand Turk

Dave

[Steve]

This does sound a great idea

[Gareth Stonely]

Just copied this from CPAT
Grand Turk at SJ26305170, where a chimney base and stonework remains of the winding engine house are hidden in the underegrowth.

Also been in that area today and came across two shafts. Pics 1&2 are the same shaft at sj26275168 and pic 3 is at Sj26345160

[Les Williams]

[quote="DaveT" post=40424]

Les, a few of questions.

On the route from Cabin shaft you head round the back of boundary shaft and along a convoluted route, which IIRC involves a short rope or ladder pitch and a squeeze through natural. You end up halfway up a massive stope with a long scaffold pipe to bridge the gap (complete with traverse protection ropes, cross this and then I think you follow round to the right to another stope with a rope heading diagonally upwards - probably about 30m. Do you recall going up this? I asked Dewi about it and he said it led to a dangerous collapse, but I was dubious as a lot of effort has been made in bolting the route.
[/quote]

So, it was a long time ago and I was there with Mike Smith and some Wessex. I don't recall the route, it is quite mazy, but I know our "guide" ended up back at Cabin Shaft, so we had to go around again.
I found the route to Grand Turk, but I do remember stepping across a stope to get in to the passage with a run in. I don't remember the details though. We dug through the run in to get to the chamber that led to the pitch down to the crawl into Grand Turk

[quote="DaveT" post=40424]
When the entrance was big dug from the inside was this vertical or horizontal and do you know if they were capping it? Was it close to the path that runs above the kiln or did you have to bash through trees/bramble. (The reason I ask is there are a lot of bumps and hollows around there and even a block search of a 200m x 200m square would take a while). I know its a big ask for you to try and remember the details from some time ago, but it would help limit the search. We could, of course, just maypole the shaft and work our way out - or I could retrace my original trip.

Having a entrance at this end would be really helpful in getting down to the diesel stopes as it avoids the long drag from cabin and also makes a nice through route for Grand Turk

Dave[/quote]

The exit (because it was opened from the inside) was vertical, up through some mud and roots. Whilst we were down in Grand Turk those that stayed behind noticed a skeleton that one of our members (a vet) identified as a dog, this suggested that there must be an old entrance nearby. A look around identified what appeared to be a slope of earth that might have come down from above. Apparently they dug it away with their hands and more fell down, eventually they had opened a short shaft up against a rock edge, to a root and earth blockage. They inserted Mike Smith up into it upside down, and he kicked his way through the roots to make a hole out into the woods. They then sat in the chamber waited until we returned when they spoofed us that we had to return all the way to Cabin Shaft, through all the squalor of the run in that we had dug through. We were muddy and wet and lacking humour so were very pleased to discover they had managed to open an exit. We popped out in the woods and it was like the film, The Great Escape, as we came out of the "tunnel" one at a time.

[Dave Tyson]

Thanks LesW & Stones,

It sounds like it may be quite tricky to locate the shaft Les came up as its likely to collapse - but a potter around above the kiln with some string to mark areas covered may be worthwhile. I did have a wander around a while ago and came across the shaft (Marked Open Pit) covered with mesh as reported by Stones. I think this is too far away to link directly underground - but it would provide a useful data point mapping the old plan to the OS grid if it is definitively Grand Turk.

Mick phoned me up and explained in detail about the shaft he descended with Bob Sheppard - this is very close to the main path (old railway track) just to the right of the gate in a copse of trees. It is covered by a lid and probably leaves, soil whatever. It was a straight drop of about 80' and a passage leads to a rock bridge above the diesel stopes. I guess if we went down this we could work our way over and probably find the escape route used by Les. Once we know where the hole is I think we should get a bit of 500m twinwall tube and stabilise it - not sure NWCC would approve - but sod it :-)

Dave

[Les Williams]

Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible

[Dave Tyson]

[quote="LesW" post=40444]Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible[/quote]
Well if the upper area is that close to the surface I am sure UCET could dig a parallel shaft and claim that to avoid any issues - unless NWCC want to play the GCC games :-)

Dave

[Les Williams]

[quote="DaveT" post=40445][quote="LesW" post=40444]Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible[/quote]
Well if the upper area is that close to the surface I am sure UCET could dig a parallel shaft and claim that to avoid any issues - unless NWCC want to play the GCC games :-)

Dave[/quote]

But you know NWCC own all of Minera...  :whistle:

[Steve]

Me and Tom went down a shaft the other week about 100m to the left from g t and there was a dead dog at the bottom of that wonder if this is the same one. We crawled around some of the holes and went down one squeeze and we could definitely feel a draft.

[Dave Tyson]

[quote="Stevekennedy" post=40453]Me and Tom went down a shaft the other week about 100m to the left from g t and there was a dead dog at the bottom of that wonder if this is the same one. We crawled around some of the holes and went down one squeeze and we could definitely feel a draft.[/quote]
Do you mean 100m from the 'blue plastic pipe' entrance or the Grand Turk shaft mentioned by Stones...

Dave

[Steve]

I have dug some but it’s 600mm

[Steve]

No. It’s concrete capped but has a triangle hole in the top. It’s about 60 feet I think.
I don’t have any pictures of the top.