Location
SJ 188 677
Directions
Locate the Royal Oak Pub at Hendre and park nearby. There is a road behind the pub with a track running off to the right immediately. Take that track until you arrive at a small, derelict building and head up into the woods along a path. The shaft is a couple hundred yards up the hill.
Access
Permission is required from Lloyds Quarries
Suggested Equipment
None
Length
½ to 1 mile along all the passages
Flood risk
The bottom adit is habitually flooded with the water rising almost up to the level above on occasions.
Mine Attributes
Feldspar Mine. Numerous levels all laddered.
Description
A reasonable sized mine with (mostly) big, open passages on multiple levels.
Entering the mine by the main ladder takes you into the main system and you immediately find yourself in a big chamber. There is a level below here (connected by a ladder) leading to a backfilled adit, a waterlogged adit and also a hole to another level below.
Continuing along the first level adit you arrive at a small hole upwards where a fireman’s hose assisted scramble takes you to a shelf within a large, exposed hole (to the surface). Here a ladder can be taken down to another level and, again, another ladder to another level below.
In this level the passageway is it’s biggest with a small exit at the end leading to the base of the large hole which houses the shelf from earlier.
As series of three ladders takes you down to a further level with two parallel adits (one impassable due to a hole) which converge in a chamber with a passage running off to the right (only short) and a bridge directly in front with an upward sloping passage behind it which also goes blind.
There is another level below this level which can be accessed where the two parallel adits converge but the level below is always flooded. If the water depth is not to deep it is possible to swim into the adit but, usually, the level is above the ceiling of the adit below.
The mineral content of this mine is extremely rich with feldspar littering the ground and walls almost everywhere you travel.
Unexplored Passages
There are several passages known to be unexplored including a full exploration of the hole (which must be rigged) near to the base of the first set of ladders after entering the mine, the climb upwards in the chamber to the right of the bridge on the pen-ultimate level and other “holes†at the end of some of the adits which require rigging to pass or descend.
Digs
None Known
Links
http://www.gloucester-speleo.org/gallery/mines/mines.html
http://www.mine-explorer.co.uk/mines/Hendre-spar_2429/Hendre-spar.asp
http://www.wirralcavinggroup.org.uk/trips/hendre.html
http://www.aditnow.co.uk/mines/Hendre-Fluorite-Mine-2/
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The ladder down in the first chamber
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The fireman's hose assisted scramble
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The ladder down from the shelf to the level below
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The waterlogged adit on the level immediately below entry level
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The bottom (flooded) level
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More piccies courtesy of MartyMarty :D
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just a few more of the unseen bottom adit level
This is the bottom level the only way in is through the hole at the top and an ab down or electron ladder in this case. The top light is Ian the second is Mike and the third is Marc and with Adam next to me.
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Mike Leahy standing near the top of the level behind him it goes to water with a massive colapse at the end.
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Mike at the bottom of the main incline now submerged and full of water. The water is very low in these summer months but ive seen the water to roof level and more in the winter.
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Adam and Mike half way down the main adit level note the submersable pnumatic pumps next to Adam there were three of these in total.
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Two of the three pumps.
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This is the main incline if you follow this it takes you to a steeper incline to surface but at the top its all caved in. Note the timbering to the left side to keep falling spar from the tracks.
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Mike at the incline facing upwards and outwards.
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Mike Adam and Marc at the top of the main incline the portal now behind them blocked big time. Keep still Marc im a pro you know!
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just a few of the work done. pics taken tonight after someone moaning on another popular web site
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Lower level, Normally flooded
(sorry for picture quality, taken with my camera in an underwater housing)
A few more for you
End of the workings
Washed in rubbish
"That's All Forks!"
Bloody brilliant photos, all of them!:cheer:
Ultra close up - lens touching @ 0cm calcite formation
Illuminated calcite teeth - close up (3cm)
Dry Cave Pearls (5cm)
Extreme close up of calcite formation (0cm)
Another extreme close up - the "cliff" is no more than 5mm in height
This Feldspar/Calcite crystal is smaller than a penny and is backlit
The "flooded" level now the water is dropping with a "new" hole in the wall (taken from the bottom of the gravel incline)
When I say "don't move" What I actually mean is.... "DON'T MOVE" !!!!
:P
Wet Cave Pearls
Ian, Your Dry Cave Pearls are very nice, I do like them, indeed :ohmy:
enough of the cave pearls (although they do look very nice), wheres the spider?
AHEM! You are in a mine so they are mine pearls
[quote="martymarty" post=2633]AHEM! You are in a mine so they are mine pearls[/quote]
Although they were found (and created) within a mine, the correct terminology is "cave pearl(s)".
I realise that this may be upsetting for your very sensitive demeanor but may I suggest you take the matter up with the people responsible for the English language (the Anglo-Saxons)- that is, if you can find any left alive :whistle:
;)
Ian
Great pics again Ian, I love the cave pearls, erm and i'm glad the spider pic never made the cut (I had nightmares about a spider last night - no kidding).
still gonna kick your ass ..shortstuff
[quote="cavefrog" post=2637]Great pics again Ian, I love the cave pearls, erm and i'm glad the spider pic never made the cut (I had nightmares about a spider last night - no kidding).[/quote]
Sadly, no, the spider did not come out - my photographic talents are not yet on par with my peers :S
Sorry you had nightmares but, on the positive side, there are far worse things to ponder over :silly:
Ian
[quote="martymarty" post=2638]still gonna kick your ass ..shortstuff[/quote]
Heard it all before .. blah blah de la de dah blah .....
:P
Ian
Several questions....
I am puzzled by some of the pictures above as they seem to be taken in a different mine to the Hendre Spar mine I have now explored on several occasions.
Is the level of water now falling at a slower rate? It seems to me that the level dropped at about 10" a week when the water filled the whole lower chamber - a huge volume. But now the water level just reaches the top of the incline, so in theory the water level should fall more rapidly if the rate of drainage volume is constant. But the level of water in the incline does not seem to be going down much at all.
Has anyone measured the depth of the mine from the entrance hole down to the floor level of the lowest level now accessible? Has anyone experimented with an altimeter to measure the depth of mines?
I am intrigued by the thick sticky texture of the clay like mud that now covers the lower level - as shown in one of the pictures above. This is probably formed by the precipitation of very fine particles in the flood water. Has anyone explored the use of this sort of mud as a modelling pottery clay for firing?
Comments welcome...
My only comment is with regard to the receding water ....
We do not know why the water is dropping but have "guessed" something may have opened up allowing water to drain.
Assuming that is the case (and it may not be) the water may slow down it's rate of drain as it reaches the escape as the water pressure will fall or, it may become partly plugged with debris slowing it down.
It may not be a "Plug" in any event .....
Additionally, I am not certain the rate is slowing as, from Marty's pictures on facebook, the water has very clearly dropped significantly in the last two weeks (The deepest part where there "party" is stood is only ankle depth and Dylan was wading up to his waist there on my last trip 2/3 weeks ago.
;)
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=3566]Has anyone experimented with an altimeter to measure the depth of mines?
[/quote]
yes, - but only the rather crude one thats built into my watch. Obvious potential problem being that in a system where the pressure variations caused by the cooling/warming of areas (i.e. anywhere where you have a draft meaning air moving from a higher pressure area to a lower pressure area) are going to influence the measurement. To add to this humidity changes also play a large part in the equation.
As can be seen from the relationship between p (measured atmospheric pressure) and h (the height in meters above sea level):
p = Po * ( 1- ( (L*h)/To ) ^ ( (g * M)/(R * L) )
Where:
Po = Standard Sea Level atmospheric pressure (101325 Pa)
L = Temperature Lapse rate (0.0065 K/m)
To = Standard sea level temp (288.15 K)
g = acceleration due to gravity 9.81 m/s^2
M = Molar Mass of dry air (0.0289644 kg/mol)
R = Universal Gas Constant 8.31447 J/(mol.K)
In large open mines - like this one - its much more likely to be accurate though :-) And lets face it, the degree of accuracy may/or might not been deemed good enough depending on what you're doing.
[quote="TimWatts" post=3573][quote="JohnNicholson" post=3566]Has anyone experimented with an altimeter to measure the depth of mines?
[/quote]
yes, - but only the rather crude one thats built into my watch. Obvious potential problem being that in a system where the pressure variations caused by the cooling/warming of areas (i.e. anywhere where you have a draft meaning air moving from a higher pressure area to a lower pressure area) are going to influence the measurement. To add to this humidity changes also play a large part in the equation.
As can be seen from the relationship between p (measured atmospheric pressure) and h (the height in meters above sea level):
p = Po * ( 1- ( (L*h)/To ) ^ ( (g * M)/(R * L) )
Where:
Po = Standard Sea Level atmospheric pressure (101325 Pa)
L = Temperature Lapse rate (0.0065 K/m)
To = Standard sea level temp (288.15 K)
g = acceleration due to gravity 9.81 m/s^2
M = Molar Mass of dry air (0.0289644 kg/mol)
R = Universal Gas Constant 8.31447 J/(mol.K)
In large open mines - like this one - its much more likely to be accurate though :-) And lets face it, the degree of accuracy may/or might not been deemed good enough depending on what you're doing.[/quote]
Obviously all that is required normally is a dP i.e. the difference in absolute pressure measured at point x and point y within the mine, in order to give a height and providing there is no major changes in humidity or thermally induced pressure variations between these points then it should be pretty much bang on.
When I am underground I take it forgranted that I am underground.
That tends to be sufficient :huh:
Ian
Ahh, but what if you are alone, and you turn off your lamp and you are in utter utter darkness. Where are you then????? ;-)
[quote="TimWatts" post=3576]Ahh, but what if you are alone, and you turn off your lamp and you are in utter utter darkness. Where are you then????? ;-)[/quote]
In solitude :huh: :huh:
My reason for asking about the depth of Hendre Spar mine is because it seems to me that the distance we drop down through all the shafts by ropes and ladders is greater than the distance we climb up from the car park. In just want to get an idea of the level at which the mine was operated - and also how far into the mountain it extends. It would all be answered by mapping.
If the water is draining out then it is probably not draining into the rive - because there is not a river. It has already disappeared underground. I assume that the river actually drains to Milwr. So the water in Hendre Spar mine will also be finding its way to the Milwr. How far down is that? Are there known links from this area to Milwr?
The Milwr Tunnel is approx 440 feet below the road level and there is a link to it from Garreg Boeth which is only a field or two away from the Hendre Spar Mine.
I personally don't know the depth of the Spar mine but we have seen a further flooded incline (decline) with a divers line attached so there is yet more to see.
Someone, somewhere will have a plan of the mine system :)
Ian
Yes - there is a map (I assumed was drawn by Ian) at the beginning of this article, but now very out of date. But it is a diagram in plan for each floor. It would be interesting to see this mine in longitudinal section.
John
I intend to take my paragliding altimeter into the mine the next time I go.
I'll let you know the outcome.
That would be brilliant! It would be useful to have a reading at the car park and also at the place where the sheds are at the bottom of the incline.
There is a lot I still don't understand about this mine. Why did the miners draw their spoils UP the underground inclines from low levels, instead of driving the levels horizontally to the surface? Also where is the other part of the mine with an unflooded incline and a big chamber with machinery and a railway on a lower level? Or is this a different Hendre Spar mine?
I think the incline you are speaking of is down the first ladder to a lower level then you have to go through a small hole and abseil (SRT out).
THis is the incline that I reckon connects somehow to the flooded passage Tim speaks of.
UNfortunately the incline disappears into a huge rockfall that would need a jcb to dig out (or some mad bugger!)
I'm going to try to check the depth at the bottom of the incline and compare it with the new bottom of the mine.
RE driving levels horizontally...IF you think about it they could'nt drive them horizontally as they would be permanently underground!
Permanently underground...
That's why I am so interested in the levels. It just feels to me that when we go down to the new lower unflooded floor, we must be lower than the outside - i.e. lower than the main road and remains of river. But the incline we see disappearing into water goes even lower. There is only one railway track so I assume the trolleys were winched up, and then again up to the floor above and then out somewhere.
How accurate is your meter?
Went to spa mine last night and took my altimeter.
Using the car park as a reference (altitude 0') here are the readings.
Sheds on path +40'
Entrance +130'
Bottom of firemans hose +130'!
Top of multi ladders & chain/rope section +120
Bottom of the latter +10
Bottom of mine where water has gone -40'
If you now move to the area that was originally permenently rigged for SRT.
At the small hole (leading to lower incline) +70'
Bottom of that abseil 0'
Bottom of steep incline -40'
Top of steep incline +40'
Conclusion.
I reckon that the bottom of the steep incline is the same track as we see in the section that has dried out (but still has some water in it). Although the bottom of this incline seems to carry on at a steep angle this does suggest that there may also be a lower level as suggested by the divers line.
THe blocked exit at the top of the steep incline would actually come out at the same level as the sheds on the path.
RE: Water level.I also sopke to a chap who told me that the quarry behind the mine was pumping a considerable amount of water into the mine. THey have now stopped the pumping (he guessed about 8 months ago)so it could be that the mine has always been draining but at the same time being topped up by the quarry!
FInally he is convinced that there is a second entrance to the mine from the Cilcain end, he remembers mining going on there and said he reckons there may still be an entrance. If that is so where does it go as the lower tunnel certainly ends at the working face.
There seems to be some further working along that tunnel and through a small hole in the roof. I saw a ladder there and a bit of pipe as if someone had attempted to climb up.
Anyone know where it goes?
Meant to pace out the tunnel to get an idea how long but lost count!
Phew thats it!!!!!!!!!:)
Fantastic work! And a really interesting read.
I can't believe that I hadn't considered the possibility of the quarry pumping water into the mine. We had a similar situation in Oakley a few years back, but in reverse. They were pumping water out of their pit, having the effect of draining the lower levels of the abandoned mine.
There is another spar mine in Cilcain, but as far as I know it doesn't connect.
There are 4 Spar mines that I know of, three of which are in or very near Cilcain and they do not connect. :huh:
The length of the tunnel was paced out by Crazy John and I "think" he reckoned it to be 700m
.... nice job Frank ;)
Ian
This is such fantastic information Frank. I have not been into the SRT part of Hendre, but am intrigued by the pictures. Is it possible to draw a section diagram from your measurements? By the 'Car Park' I assume you mean where we park at the Royal Oak car park.
Has anyone got a recent pic of the incline into water via the wormhole. im wondering how much that has dropped and what is available to see. :S
Marty. I've got some but they're on the camera the missus has got so it'll be Friday before I can load them.
John, yes the car park is the Royal Oak.
OOHH... has Marty got a nice new face?
Hi Frank,
I am a bit puzzled by your measurement...
Sheds on path +40' - OK
Entrance +130' - OK (but feels a lot more when you climb the slope)
Bottom of firemans hose +130'!
I note the exclamation mark. Does this mean that the route creeps slowly up hill and I did not notice this is happening? So the top of the firemans hose could be higher than the entrance?
I assume the access to the other part of the mine is via the hole that I have always crossed with the railway tracks. If anyone fell down that hole how far is the drop?
How difficult would it be to fit new ladders to enable non-SRT people to get into this section? If I could get a ladder, then how difficult would it be to get it into place? Obviously a long ladder will not go through the doorway at the bottom of the first shaft, but I seem to recall seeing another vertical hole with trees and daylight showing. Is there a picture of Marty in this hole somewhere?
Another thought, if the water level is dropping because the operator of the quarry nearby has stopped pumping water into the mine, then is it known whether they hold a valid discharge licence to do so? If they were to start pumping again then would this pose any danger to people standing in the lower chambers? Is it known how the quarry connects to the mine?
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=3764]OOHH... has Marty got a nice new face?
Hi Frank,
I am a bit puzzled by your measurement...
Sheds on path +40' - OK
Entrance +130' - OK (but feels a lot more when you climb the slope)
Bottom of firemans hose +130'!
I note the exclamation mark. Does this mean that the route creeps slowly up hill and I did not notice this is happening? So the top of the firemans hose could be higher than the entrance?
THe exclamation mark is there as an exclamation mark and yes the firemans hose is higher that the entrance
I assume the access to the other part of the mine is via the hole that I have always crossed with the railway tracks. If anyone fell down that hole how far is the drop?
Far enough to hurt yerself so be careful!
How difficult would it be to fit new ladders to enable non-SRT people to get into this section? If I could get a ladder, then how difficult would it be to get it into place? Obviously a long ladder will not go through the doorway at the bottom of the first shaft, but I seem to recall seeing another vertical hole with trees and daylight showing. Is there a picture of Marty in this hole somewhere?
No chance of getting a solid ladder into it, probably get 2 electrons attached together but it would be awkward as they would be against a wall all the way.
Another thought, if the water level is dropping because the operator of the quarry nearby has stopped pumping water into the mine, then is it known whether they hold a valid discharge licence to do so?
Suggestion...don't get involved, questioning this in my opinion is dangerous. Its easy to stop access to the mine if you piss them off.
If they were to start pumping again then would this pose any danger to people standing in the lower chambers? Is it known how the quarry connects to the mine?[/quote]
I would assume that if they started puming whilst someone was in the mine then it would take a while to fill up. THe information i had was from a local person and the deduction about the stopping of the pumping and dropping water level is purely speculative.
Fabulous photos Ian!
:cheer: :cheer: bang tidy photo's Ian
like the ones of crazy's knob at the end.......
(had to get that one in first):whistle: :whistle:
have you seen it???
ye had it branded on his legs for a while remember...
blown up :) :)
26/01/12
reply to john think about were the road and river are, they are in a valley full of glacial drift it would not be cost effective also ludicrous to drive an incline here as you are 90 ft from the solid and flooding from a downpour would be a danger to the men and the pit props etc.
the main incline dips at the foot of the solid and is only at road level when you descend the entrance shaft followed by the next then asiel down the hole and down the icline for 30 ft total approx is 150 ft. the level before the absiel came out approx 15 ft up from the main incline which starts down at the top of the track there were 5 levels
in 1984 the furthest into the mountain was level 4 level 5 was driven in about 300 yards when the price of spar plunged and there for the mine closed the last cars left in level 5 were the same as the one s in the limestone workings miniture shovels
driven by air, i recall 2 at the face if they are still there the trucks were hauled up by winch was driven by electric motors when the loaded 1 came up the empty went down, ie as the top one got emptied the bottom one got filled, does that help.
Mick
Few from me the other night :)
Those are some really crisp images Brian :)
Yep - great job B)
cheers guys :side:
I visited the other day, so here are a few pics from me
We didn't get our cameras out until sub level 3
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7071%2F7051931137_2148c9b5f8_o.jpg&hash=e87a29da066e41a11e9b9ffa8f2583f9e1a809e6) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051931137/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5311%2F7051931351_25b774f44d_o.jpg&hash=10875db641e5914788db607ffa00a45e7a136b66) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051931351/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7099%2F6905841678_e6351cf896_o.jpg&hash=a53a2b0b31d49f1d7cfcc69f9caf63b223888a37) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905841678/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7137%2F6905844608_9a7838a791_o.jpg&hash=0c41779b19af5cfada51ecd35fe24d21c169c56f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905844608/)
Next stop was sub level 4
We went as deep as was safe here, but where beaten back by water
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7126%2F7051933277_e0ae6161c0_o.jpg&hash=e99a171e937064b558ce7b1ab777af422d07fa08) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051933277/)
So we went further up to shoot the rest of the level
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5327%2F6905843346_4f095d67f1_o.jpg&hash=9bea4b967b7d946a3681eb48679aafe760048b69) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905843346/)
But I couldn't resist getting a shot looking down to the water filled incline
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5345%2F6905843926_5ee0c167c2_o.jpg&hash=2ce00dd71b2471288832d2fd0e09b25834ae73ac) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905843926/)
Looking back up to sub level 3
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7092%2F7051934391_a2019f52e1_o.jpg&hash=a45ae27b35d607103a4ed78a28cf0bc4ccd1935a) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051934391/)
Heading back up to sub level 3
The adit under the ladders
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7244%2F6905844966_6847fea56e_o.jpg&hash=10d0ae17fefb8e92bec40cd6d407c085302536ae) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905844966/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5327%2F6905845222_7ba43753da_o.jpg&hash=717dcf74bcbab43f64462285149b32a6b6ab37e8) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905845222/)
Back up on sub level 2
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7236%2F6905845588_4bd976a2f1_o.jpg&hash=e3104cf30f6566caa5ab3fc25b5bb0953761d97c) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905845588/)
We headed back up to sub level 1 and seeing as the map we were using (http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/13/40/19/59/scan0018.jpg) said the ladders down were unexplored (we hadn't cottoned onto Morrisey's report until we were down there) so we thought it would be rude not to have a look.
We found more workings
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7085%2F6905846534_bb094cbc37_o.jpg&hash=98fe8317a03c4a8f40cfe0a2cb8057838281ebff) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905846534/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7277%2F7051936575_bd44bcd1d0_o.jpg&hash=5c74d68a638ca7601a8fe7ae62a49cf8261d5008) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051936575/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5344%2F6905847396_5e0c4b81d1_o.jpg&hash=f5dcb780b59f8a07f245c590df72fe88af386568) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905847396/)
Some tracks
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7055%2F7051937309_a0cf1c86f3_o.jpg&hash=a1e6db4a453e41c48b6e7c9a151535cf48eb7796) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051937309/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5342%2F7051937067_9427ff4e1c_o.jpg&hash=c23bab928d0fa74211d7b71e301d62dd6d85c593) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051937067/)
and a back filled entrance adit
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7063%2F6905846666_1ac757a9e8_o.jpg&hash=d1f43ca1ba79866ce965fea163bc69c1fcd62dbf) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905846666/)
We spotted what I believe to be the wormhole Morrisey went down in his report, I had a quick peek, but without SRT gear it'd be certain death on a stick so I thought I'd leave ith for now.
All in all we spent a good six hours underground, Walsh and CunningCorgi are great guys and the time flew. Had a great BBQ afterwards and now I'm feeling those six hours :D
Took a few photos on sub level 4 that I think are cool
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7268%2F7051934561_d1522b046a_o.jpg&hash=7e6d718b9454b307a52644621e18471488eff047) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7051934561/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5036%2F6905844494_615aef81f6_o.jpg&hash=9821488b4795cf0c2a48f3adb6b8a48b30d5a118) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/6905844494/)
Only notice when I got home that I'd aquired a minor injury whilst diwn there
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi25.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc97%2Fxan_asmodi%2FSAM_1406.jpg&hash=1067f9b2c29e9bc2acc522aac9f73801c4ac7a56)
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Some nice pictures xan. Thanks for uploading them to the knowledge bank :)
note:
some info in this topic
http://www.ucet.org.uk/index.php/forum/6-knowledge-bank-private/5802-unknown-shafts-etc-cilcain-area#5861
which may be relevant to water levels - i.e. quarry pumping etc.
Thanks Tim, I have been wondering about that. I'll read up now!
EDIT: I would read that, but I don't have sufficient permissions apparently! :side:
Yes, sorry - certain items of info are kept in a private area for members only where sensitive issues are being dealt with etc. We try to keep secrecy to a minimum but i know you'll understand what it means to go openly public with certain things.
I know about the need to keep certain things out of the public view all too well. I've got access to the private forums on a few sites, but I understand it takes time and contribution to build up the trust
come out with us on a couple of trips and we'll gladly take a membership fee off you and sign you up :-)
It's worth mentioning that subs are £20 per year (non-profit making). You also need insurance (BCA) which you may already have. If you haven't we can sort it out for you and it is £17 per year (about double if you do it yourself). In both cases, it runs 1st Jan to 31st Dec. :)
Cheers for the infor, guys! I'll need to sort out the funds for stuff when my student loan comes in.
liar - it'll all go on beer and you bloody know it! ;-)
I'm trying not to, gotta carry on losing weight. Plus, the girlfriend would kick me out if I didn't give her some keep!
I've been back here a couple of times. Thought I'd share the fruits of my labour with you all
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5235%2F7006099674_450da95727_b.jpg&hash=7194799696578795445e6086f923c2fd3cff1a39) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7006099674/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7087%2F7152188585_e6f9b29d98_b.jpg&hash=b4b094b678ae046e0f9772c33e21f6e5f34835cf) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7152188585/)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8167%2F7006099572_0992c4446d_b.jpg&hash=9b2f8ed117123367adf99e1841078cc3a0dae2ed) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanakuma/7006099572/)
Xan Asmodi - where are you from? What are you studying? Do you need a lift from Bangor to get to UCET trips?
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=11428]Xan Asmodi - where are you from? What are you studying? Do you need a lift from Bangor to get to UCET trips?[/quote]
Hi John,
I would love a lift to UCET meetings; unfortunately I'm the Birkenhead based lad of the four you bumped into yesterday before Poachers. :)
I'm study nursing BTW!
I am so glad you have managed to make contact with us through the UCET forum.
We had an amazing day yesterday meeting so many new cavers. Yourselves before and after our Poachers trip, and then in side Poachers main Boss Chamber we met three others who had filled the place with candles.
I think we may sometimes adopt your route to Poachers avoiding the steep hill walk. But it does a lot to keep us fit and trimm.
Sorry I can't help with lifts from Birkenhead, as we come from Bangor. I suggest you ask Ian or Mike Lehey if there are UCET members who come that way. It may be that you could get a train towards Chester and Alison could meet you at Capenhurst or Shotton.
Another of the motley crew you met the other day here.
I'm the one with short hair! :D
The other two will no doubt be along soon, we've been over to Wales before in the past splitting the costs of LPG as we go, no doubt we'll be back in the future for more mud related fun.
We had a mooch in Hendre after we left, although i'm not a huge fan of ladders so didn't spend an awful lot of time in there.
Hi Hawkeye - and others!
Very glad you have been able to post on the UCET site, and you are very welcome to join us for a weekend frolic underground. I normally post a weekend trip most weekends, but next weekend I am doing a surveying course in South Wales, and the weekend after we have the UCET Christmas Bash.
I am sure we can sort out some way to accommodate overnight if necessary. I can help if you are doing stuf near Bangor.
Did we also meet in Moel Fferna Slate Mine?
Hi John,
I've never been to Moel Fferna so it wouldn't have been me, one of the other three may have though - Xan?
Thought I'd add some Hendre pics, from another visit:
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe376%2FNauthiz-othala%2FHS%2FDSC_1149.jpg&hash=e06fe9bed3de22c0926ff507188a97303cd5b1ca)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe376%2FNauthiz-othala%2FHS%2FDSC_1148.jpg&hash=f137fc6528c5d8aa1ecda36a2f6b145cd30d09c8)
(https://test.anduin.org.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe376%2FNauthiz-othala%2FHS%2FDSC_1150.jpg&hash=9b8b5160b03e3bad7fe0e941405bf3d3ecf1c649)
Adam
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=3764]
How difficult would it be to fit new ladders to enable non-SRT people to get into this section? If I could get a ladder, then how difficult would it be to get it into place? Obviously a long ladder will not go through the doorway at the bottom of the first shaft, but I seem to recall seeing another vertical hole with trees and daylight showing.
[/quote]
in my opinion - it would be easiest to rig the pitch with electron ladders and life line on a " per visit " basis
however if people REALLY wanted a fixed ladder to enable anyone to access the lower level at any time - with no assistance the instalation is IMHO the easy part
my first question is : i want to know who is going to pay for the materials
the next - the legal and liability issues of fitting such a ladder
i am going there tommorrow - and can take some measurements and think about the problem
the four opitions would be :
1 - a roy fellows template - cave exploration ladder [ 2 wooden drilled sides - with steel rungs ]
2 - a commercial pree-made alloy or steel ladder
3 a maypole ladder - as seen in the top ent of nagdolin
4 a all steel ladder - either pre built or assembled in situ
as john correctly opinies - the open shaft adjacent to the fire hose scramble does actually give access to the lower level - it slumps with mud / grit - but could be dug to increase access
but like i say at the top - who is going to pay ? - i will glady provide time effort and equipment - but cannot afford to pay for materials
its not just the ladder - it has to be secured [ brakets and anchors ] - and if an unsupervised ladder is fitted - the mousehole will require some protection too - like via ferrata foot holds ? to enable safe descent to the ladder itself
once a plan is approved - if the materials are transported to the site - getting them installed is the easy part
but there is the legal aspect - that must be addressed - and like i say - someone must pay for the shoppoing list
like i say - putting a fixed ladder in - opens up the lower level for anyone - but has a price tag - and legal implications
on trips featuring non SRT capable folk - rigging electron ladder and lifeline is very simple - but adds to trip time
Thanks for digging up this old topic Andy.
I have not been down the hole in question (down under the railway treacks), and it may well be that people do not want to see this section opened up to all and sundry. For now it is an SRT only zone. It will be very good to read your appraisal.
Also, we do not know whether this section is now also flooded, and not worth spending much extra effort on.
My, what wind we have to-night!
it would be quite simple to put a smal platforf and a maypole in.
i will try and sort it out early in the new year
Are we talking about the route that people have refered to as 'The worm hole'?
the area does not flood john, it is the next level down from here that floods, i've been down a few times.
as said, an electron and lifeline is the answer if people want to see down here, a couple of hangers bolting in would assist in the rigging.
i dont think it would be worth spending time putting in fixed ladders just to see the small area it would add to the mine, as unless the water level is going to drop again, it doesnt add much to the mine.
I remember seeing some pictures Marty took down there and it looked good. But Marty can make anywhere look good.
please see the latest trip report from dan - the level was found to be flooded to a depth today -
instead of a fixed latter - maybe an inflatable boat should be put below the worm hole - so people can abseil into it - like at CRRT
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Awesome 2nd piccie B)
Just been in tonight with the AN Thurdsday Nighters, and the water level is about as low as I've seen it, short of the level being explorable. It's pretty much ceiling level on the formerly accessible lower level. if it carries on dropping like last year, it may be accessible again soon.
I'll see if any of the pictures came out (Hand-held on the loose stuff, probably not).
ceiling levels about 'normal'.
Weird. All the other times I have seen it, it's been well up the manway. Oh well, I'm not in there as often as you guys.
ahh yer - don';t get me wrong - it has been higher - often is - but sitting at just under ceiling height is normal-ish ;-)
Thanks guys for a great afternoon. It was great to meet you all! Sorry I couldn't attend the party as I didn't know about it and I wasn't prepared as Ant didn't tell me about it. Is it OK to put some photos on here of the spiders and moths?
We love spiders and moths, and fungi. :S
put some up, but be selective, we don't need to see all 90 odd you put on facebook.
Oh, I should add the water level has risen since my last visit.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1489107_10202772790470410_818040124_n.jpg)
Huntsmen Spider
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1508135_10202772791990448_1816955570_n.jpg)
(https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202772782870220.1073741852.1519665322&type=1&l=8a8c136540)
No swimming last night as water level has risen quite a lot over the past few weeks.
Took a few pics of the ladders. Bit of a difference from my 1st ever underground photo when I first joined UCET 2 years ago. :woohoo:
My first photo back in 2013 (Didn't have a clue what I was doing)
Pic from last night 05/03/2015
Will post more later.
Is that the current water level - just below the bottom ladder?
Has anyone checked the level of the water in the quarry above to see if it is also high when the Sparmine is most flooded? Tim had a vision to by-pass the drainage from the quarry through Susan Shaft to a much lower stream way which could have the most desirable effect of lowering the Sparmine flooding so we can again reach the long bottom passage.
Piccie robbed from Adam's forum .... looks like the water level has dropped enough to let people wander around the bottom level again .... awesome trip.
Date : 28th April 2019
Did they go to the bottom level
That is the bottom level :whistle:
I thought that was the incline down to the water that we swam through to get to the bottom level
Yes .... But .... it "IS" the bottom level. When you "swim" (around past where the camera man is stood) you are walking in the mine again. It's all on that level.
There is another incline underwater (decline?) which has a divers line attached. That goes to depth's untrodden.
:dry:
Erm,
It has been pointed out to me that the metal pipe does not go all the way to the bottom of the incline. Having thought about this (took a full second) I realised that to be correct. The photo is therefore taken half way down (giving the impression it is at the bottom!!!) meaning that the water is extremely high.
A visit to the lower workings cannot be undertaken unless you are a fish.
Sorry about that.
:blink:
Ian