United Cavers Exploration Team

Cave and Mine Exploring => Technical Information => Topic started by: Joel Colk on Feb 04, 2014, 09:25 PM

Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Joel Colk on Feb 04, 2014, 09:25 PM

Anyone seen this before? Is this a recent change? I was always taught to use a seperate braking krab, both by UCET and the army. Also alpine caving techniques seems to be ok with it.
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Dave Tyson on Feb 04, 2014, 09:51 PM
It looks from the diagram that there is a possibility of the stop jamming in the braking krab and there could be a resultant load on the plastic/metal closure of the gate on the stop. I guess if the gate broke you could have the stop come open. Its pretty unlikely IMHO. I always to suggest the braking krab is not attached to the central maillon, but instead is attached to a gear loop or belt to one side as I find that gives a better rope flow while still adding extra friction. In this case the scenario shown cannot occur...

Dave
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: mike leahy on Feb 05, 2014, 05:30 PM
if your going to use a braking crab , personally you are better off using a petzl freino on your stop
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Iestyn Rhys Pritchard on Feb 05, 2014, 07:22 PM
Is it showing it's ok to attach the brake to the oval crab, but not to the maillon?  :S
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Dylan Roberts on Feb 05, 2014, 07:25 PM
Or use a Raumer Handy
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Anthony Britner on Feb 05, 2014, 07:53 PM
What they are saying is if you have the breaking krab on the mallion then if a rebelay below you fails it could pull the top of the stop down and inside the breaking krab putting strain on the stop in a way that it was not designed to handle. It does say in the paperwork.
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Tim Watts on Feb 06, 2014, 09:43 AM
no its not new - i've been saying this for years - and its been on petzl's instructions for years too. Read the fucking manual! RTFM!
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Tim Watts on Feb 06, 2014, 09:44 AM
because if attached to the krab (rather than the maillon) then it phyically cant fit round and hang up over the top of the stop
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: Joel Colk on Feb 06, 2014, 04:50 PM
Time for a refresher on the manuals then...

Guys, my question wasn't really about whether if it was in the manual, as it clearly is - the picture I posted is taken from the manual.

It was more for me to gauge how many people know about it as I've seen many people doing it with a separate krab on the mallion. I found it worrying that many people do still so it that way. A lad who is fairly new to SRT, initially asked the question as he too had seen individuals doing it that way too.

It has sparked off a debate on the DCC Facebook page with some cavers even defending the method.
Title: Braking krabs on Petzl stops....
Post by: mike leahy on Feb 07, 2014, 04:46 PM
you will always get peeps (in every sport) who just get stuck in a bad habit, i used to paddle with a lad who was always using a high brace, until it popped his shoulder out side surfing a stopper.