Dear all,
I am looking at buying a (brand new) harness that would be ideal for attaching cows tails to for the more tame trips and also suitable for SRT when I become more confident on the ropes.
I would be really grateful of any input or advice as I have no idea what to look for in a harness.
Also, is it better to buy a harness and bits and pieces separately or are these complete SRT kits any good?
I don't really have a budget in mind as I believe you can't put a price on certain things in life (namely luxury bog roll, Comfy boxers, food & SRT kit that your life depends on)
Many thanks in advance,
Rob :woohoo:
Hi Rob,
Harnesses are a very personal thing and I would suggest you try a few before deciding to buy one.
If you are getting it to use for SRT then you really should get an SRT harness. They are specially constructed with a low attachment point to aid prussiking. It is very important that you use a harness of this type with a chest harness of some sort as you could (in extreme circumstances), find yourself inverted (due to the low attachment point) when it is possible to slip out of the harness.
Another point on SRT harnesses is that they are not constructed to sustain a fall. Climbing harnesses are designed to transfer a fall onto the softer and more absorbent parts of your anatomy, SRT harnesses will transfer any shock loadings straight onto your pelvis, which in a big fall will fracture, not so good...
The important points:
Try before you buy
SRT harness for SRT, Climbing harness for climbing (or anywhere where there is a risk of a large fall (above FF1).
Brilliant, Cheers Les :)
the age old question.
there is little point buying a full SRT kit unless you intend to learn how to use it.
if you do intend to learn how to use it, then they are worth looking at, but they are a standard kit, and people like different things, for going down as an example, most cavers use a stop, but a lot of mine explores like whats called a ID, when you buy a standard kit, they come with a stop or a bobbin, so they may not be ideal if you are going to end up changing half of the gear.
if you have no intention of learning SRT, just buy a caving belt and some cowstails.
if you want a harness, there are 4 basic types,
fall arrest harness - in my opinion a waste of time, but i do have a couple for noobs to wear if i take them on a trip, they cant fall out of it even if they end up, upside down.
Climbing harness, will do the job, quite comfy, but they aint great for ascending ropes as the croll sits to high on your harness.
SRT harness - AWESOME, fairly comfy, great for SRT but they are bulky and fairly expensive, i think the Petzl Sequoia is around £150 for just the harness.
Caving harness - just like an SRT harness with all the padding and comfy bits removed, light weight and quite tough, designed for harsh enviroments.
i have a caving harness and a climbing harness, i dont have a belt as i dont like them, i use the caving harness for SRT trips, i use the climbing harness if i will only be going down or if i only need cows tails or if i only have a harness to belay others
Great, Cheers for your advice Dan. The websites I'm looking at are great if you know what you want, however if you're new to the sport, they don't really explain the key features.
It's great to seek advice from experienced cavers and mine explorers.
Thanks again
I did for 2 - 3 years just use a climbing harness as i couldnt see what difference it would make.
after andy slapped me around the head and made me wear a caving harness on a trip, i found how much less effort going up the rope was, been as un-fit as i am, anything that makes it easier is fine by me, so i purchased a caving harness and never looked back.
I obviously have little experience, but this may be of help to you;
I ordered a load of stuff from inglesport just before christmas. I looked at SRT kits but couldn't really find one that had all the stuff I wanted (I just searched for everything Timm Watts had listed as a "perfect kit")
I went for the Alp Design harness (basically because it had the chest straps with it, so i wouldn't have to buy any) It's not a bad harness, but if you want to use it without the chest straps (or take them off for cleaning, it's an arse of a job to get them back on again.)
I think I paid in total about £225 for the harness, croll, basic, stop, cowstails, footloop, 3 locking karabiners (the cheapest ones) and 3 DMM wiregate karabiners. Buying the cowstails with knots tied already worked out cheaper than buying dynamic rope by the meter, or maybe it was the footloop, I can't remember!
Hope this helps!
Iestyn
and this is the list I used to work out what to buy:
http://www.ucet.org.uk/index.php/forum/30-technical-information/4854-srt-kits
Cheers for that Iestyn, I appreciate your input. I was looking at the harness you've got but I'm a fussy bugger and after what you've said regarding it being a pain in the arse to clean, I'll probably think again.
To be honest, I'm thinking of taking a trip up to inglesport to get kitted out with a proper caving suit and SRT gear.
Also, after reading Les's and Dan's posts above, I think I'd like to try stuff on B)
The majority of my "experience" comes from shitting myself on a harness that I didn't like.... started off with a climbing harness: very comfy, but as has been pointed out, the attachment point is rather high and I struggled big time when going up or down a rope. It was all a bit stretchy and I didn't trust it at all.
Then I tried a friends caving harness - a Singing Rock 'digger' from Inglesport for about £50. Its not comfy, but I like the reassurance of feeling it there when Im dangling above a perilous drop. Its convincingly constructed in a very strong looking manner - looks like its made of the straps commonly seen on HGVs. You could easily tow out a stuck Landrover with it (but not sure Id want to use it afterwards)
Its not everyone's cup of tea, and Les is totally right: it needs to suit YOU. As many others told me, "you need to trust your kit" and I now trust the harness I use.
Hope you find this useful.
Phil
Cheers Phil. I also like the look of that one, It looks a lot better built than the others (even if it's not)
Will try and tie in a trip to Inglesport next time I'm doing a stock run up that way, I use a lot of suppliers in that neck of the woods.
starless river. nuf said :huh: :huh:
[quote="mike leahy" post=12707]starless river. nuf said :huh: :huh:[/quote]
Do you think it's cheeky to go to Inglesport and try them on, then go home and order it online from Starless River? :evil: :whistle:
I use an MTDE Picos harness from starless river and Tim uses the lightweight version but can't remember the name of that one. They use an extra strap that goes under your bum which gives you something to sit on like a bosun's chair.
It is bar far the most comfortable harness I have ever owned.
Cheers Dylan, Just been looking at Tim's perfect kit list that Iestyn kindly posted the link to above. If you and Tim both rate them, they must be pretty good. The one Tim uses is only £62 so for the sake of £12 more than the average harnesses, I'm inclined to treat myself.
Cheers for your advice :)
Sweetie - I've just amended the first post in that link to the 'ideal kit list' i did to reflect the chest harness I use now - its a marked improvement over others I've used previously for a) holding your harness UP at the back when walking,crawling about (especially when dragging a kit bag through a crawl or walking about with loads of heavy rigging gear/whatever hanging off your harness. and b) for the ease of tightening/loosening as required during a trip - and is just a quid more then the original recommendation :-)
That's brilliant. Cheers Tim. Really appreciate yours and everyone else's advice on this :)
[quote="Dylan" post=12711]I use an MTDE Picos harness from starless river and Tim uses the lightweight version but can't remember the name of that one. They use an extra strap that goes under your bum which gives you something to sit on like a bosun's chair.
It is bar far the most comfortable harness I have ever owned.[/quote]
Another vote for the Picos - when properly adjusted its like sitting in an armchair. Seems to have a lower attachment point and (for me at least) more efficient than the Petzl Super Avanti. My chest harness is the Alp Design Bunny from Starless which is also extremely comfortable and quick to adjust.
But like others have said, its a personal thing, so its good to try out a few if possible.
rob there is enough of us in the club with different srt kits so try as many can before you buy ;) ;)
Cheers Hamilton & Mike :cheer:
[quote="Hamilton" post=12790][quote="Dylan" post=12711]I use an MTDE Picos harness from starless river and Tim uses the lightweight version but can't remember the name of that one. They use an extra strap that goes under your bum which gives you something to sit on like a bosun's chair.
It is bar far the most comfortable harness I have ever owned.[/quote]
Another vote for the Picos - when properly adjusted its like sitting in an armchair. Seems to have a lower attachment point and (for me at least) more efficient than the Petzl Super Avanti. My chest harness is the Alp Design Bunny from Starless which is also extremely comfortable and quick to adjust.
But like others have said, its a personal thing, so its good to try out a few if possible.[/quote]
bloody good point that - something drove me to fiddle with the leg loops on my MTDE the other week and it went from being like sitting in an armchair to feeling like my balls were getting ripped off. Adjusted back and its A1 again. The point is that proper adjustment and ANY harness probably makes the world of difference.