Poachers Cave
Trip Date : 29th Sept 2012 (Saturday)
Trip Time : 12:00 (Noon)
Meet Place : Usual Place at Cilcain Bridge, here;
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=cilcain&hl=en&ll=53.177677,-3.216728&spn=0.005343,0.006716&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=11.039485,13.754883&hnear=Cilcain,+Flintshire,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.177677,-3.216728&panoid=v5oMquX2SuZJO1MaNhd8zg&cbp=12,223.59,,0,9.78
There is a trip to explore Poachers cave especially laid on for our French contingent (there will be a party of 5)
All members are welcome and we may be able to accomodate a small number of non-members.
You will get very wet and very muddy. Bring wellies and be prepared to have to change your clothes afterwards unless you have a really good caving suit.
Wellies essential.
Short, 12 foot electron ladder at the entrance.
Knee pads recommended.
Going so far;
Ian
Marcelle +4
Mr B
John N
Richard S
Sledge & Lotty
Alison
Mike (Captain) <----- Maybe
can you put my name down thanks
Yes, done ;)
I will try and come along.
"maybe" added John
Would like to get down and dirty in the Poachers again : could you add me to the list of idiots, please?
Done Richard ;)
We will be there Ian, Lotty and myself.
Thanks :)
[quote="Sledgehammer" post=9678]We will be there Ian, Lotty and myself.
Thanks :)[/quote]
Awesome !!!!
Please add me to the list. Thanks. :)
[quote="AliWeb" post=9703]Please add me to the list. Thanks. :)[/quote]
Done ;)
I'd love to come on this if poss, please can I get a lift if someone is passing through Wrexham?
I will come on this trip - as assistant to Alison.
Bella may also be able to come.
Latest...
Bella can come.
i might come
I know - you already said :P
oh :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
sorry every one cant make it today as i have to go into work as a mong as f@@k my work up so i have to go in and sort it out guted isnt the word hope some more trips cum up soon
We had a great trip, and a jolly time at the White horse afterwards. Thanks Ian for showing us two new passages within Poachers. Bella fell asleep in the truck going home!
at the risk of inviting ` drama ` - i would rather ask here - than anywhere else - what is the nature and severity of the vandalism discovered on saturday -i assume that the person who started the thread on UKC is a UCET member or guest
i want to do poachers - but cannot get there on a thursday - and was obviously on " another " trip on sat
Hi Andy,
T'was "I" that started the thread on UKCaving (Jackalpup) ...
There is a splendid chamber within the cave which is home to a large boulder flowstone (Boss Stalagmite), a high chandelier and (previously) some cave art. The paintings are not "old" because the cave was underwater up until the Milwr tunnel was created but they have, nevertheless, been removed.
No one is admitting to anything - not the paiting removals or the bolting of the wall.
:(
Ian
The 'vandalism' may be that the historic wall paintings have been completely removed and there is now a boilt fixed into the face of the flat smooth vertical rock face. Someone has bolted a route up to the channel above the lantern that is suspended over the 'boss'. My thought is that the core structure of the boss is rocks fallen from the passageway above, pushed down at a time when there was a considerable water flow. As the flow reduced so the water has subsequently produced the calcite formations we see to-day. It would be interesting to see a map of Poachers superimposed upon an OS map so we can see where the source of this water is situated at surface.
On a different topic I have drafted a list of trips we plan to do at weekends because many people say our Thursday night trips are difficult to get to and also feel rushed. Poachers will be on that list again soon - especially now Ian has shown Bella some new sporty passages to play in! If you went in to every possible part of Poachers then you could be in there all day!
John, OHA and OHF (Poachers) survey data superimposed over google maps.
Gosh Tim! That is amazing feat. But is it possible to do the same thing to scale on to a large scale OS map? Ian showed me the position of the closed entrance, and the huge collapsed chamber beyond. He said that water dye tests in Wrexham emerge in Poachers so there may be miles of passages yet to be dicovered.
theres definitly an active streamway running under OHA and Poachers - can be heard in certain locations from mid way through OHA and more to the point to waterfall at the current 'limit' of OHA dissapears underground - the ongoing issue is getting into it/them.
Without a shadow of a doubt there is shitloads more cave to find in the the area and we've likely only just seen the tip of the iceberg.
Big boss sits here (1:25,000) OS map:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=318897&y=365116&z=115&sv=318897,365116&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=579&ax=318897&ay=365116&lm=0
The approx elevation of the ground level at the point where the Big boss sits is 50ish meters (down into the roof of the big boss chamber). So there will need to be a fair drop down, and of course there is nothing to say that this will be anything like vertical so any actual surface feature may of course be quite a long way away.
So big boss is a long way under the surface, but the collapse is caused becasue the rive Alun has subsequently cut right through the cave system. I assume you SRT guys could now use the new attachments to explore the upper chamber.
Your attached map also shows something else I remarked about to Ian during the walk to Poachers. The path that leads steeply down to the rive from the road is a Public Right of Way - maintainable at public expense. But it does not pass along the south side of the river. It actually crosses by a (non existant) bridge to the otherside of the river and joins the track to the sewage works at Hesp Alyn. There is no public right of way along the south side of the river, but the route is obviously well used. Surely local people should claim the route as an error on the definitive map? How many people in UCET can testify that they have accessed the caves by this footpath for over 20 years without challenge? This is an important issue because we could otherwise be preveneted from accessing Poachers, Rhyd Alyn Mine and OHA.
I was told - and it has been repeated recently on UKC that it was maypoled many years ago and was found to be dead - but yes, certainly if its now been bolted anyone could have a look see, I'm assuming theres a string of bolts up the wall or similar, its just a case of using a foot loop to step up from bolt to bolt. I'll have a look but am reluctant to go underground as we await imminent arrival of next member of the Watts household. My Subterrainian life is on hold due to lack of mobile reception!
I don't know what you're worring about Tim, you did your bit 9 months ago, the rest is up to Mrs Watts.
[quote="Mad-Dan" post=10111]I the rest is up to Mrs Watts.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i bet you would'nt say that to hear face B) B) you might have to wear these <-<-<-<-
Alison and Bella got really dirty in the two new passages Ian showed them...
[quote="mike leahy" post=10117][quote="Mad-Dan" post=10111]I the rest is up to Mrs Watts.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i bet you would'nt say that to hear face B) B) you might have to wear these <-<-<-<-[/quote]
I wont even go into the births of mine. but nearly 14 years after my lad was born, Mrs mad-dan still brings it up in arguments. :lol: