It seems that this is now the official trip notice.
I have suggested two trips in Alyn Valley...
TRIP ONE - Sledgehammer trip to Poachers Cave - lead by Ian. Newbie Gareth may also join.
A short electron ladder at entry leads to a muddy crawl opening up into a long river filled passageway. You will get wet and muddy, but otherwise quite an easy cave.
TRIP TWO - Rhyd Alyn, the fairy grotto, the bird's nest and the deep hole. We will need an experienced leader - may be two. Mike will lead and bring a key, and Tim may also join us fresh from the North Sea.
A short ladder drops into a water filled adit may be over boots. The adit is small but aminly walkable, and twists about beautifully, leading to a multi ladder climb within a narrow crack or loade, eventually connecting to the Milwr Tunel. Will we get that far?
Meeting Place: Cilcain Bridge carpark 6.30 pm
I can drive the Rhyd Alun group nearer to the location in one vehicle.
Refreshments afterwards at the White Horse, Cilcain. (Mike will go to the Brit).
"IF" I'm back in time (I'm due to land back at Manchester at about 4:30pm so i should be fine) I can offer to be one leader for Rhyd Alyn, I suggest however you definitely have someone else lined up in case I don't get back in time due to weather delays etc.
Remember that they need to be a NWCC Rhyd Alyn leader and keyholder. So thats basically either Me or Mike i think. (plus i've misplaced my key at home somewhere so we'd definitely need Mikes key in any rate.
No need for this to be private so i'll move it across to public unless anyone complains?
White Horse definitely gets my vote :-) Gasping for a pint after two weeks out here! :-) :-) :-)
[quote="TimWatts" post=8315]
Remember that they need to be a NWCC Rhyd Alyn leader and keyholder. So thats basically either Me or Mike i think. [/quote]
Yes it is .... I declined as I found the attached terms and conditions punitive and unacceptable.
In any event, it seems I am destined to be on another trip :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
Ian
Tim, great for us if you are back in time - but don't your family want to see you after weeks away?
Ian, don't you also have a key to Rhyd Alun - after all, it was you who took me down there previously. Is there a copy available of their 'Terms and conditions'?
Ian, I assumed from previous communications that you were personally involved in forstering the enthusiasm of the Sledgehammer group.
Mike Leahy, Me and MarC are the only three UCET members with keys/leaders according to the last list sent out by NWCC. Mike was also with you last time John.
Theres not a T&C as such - but this is the form thats filled in each trip and returned to NWCC (as well as the log book) which does have the do's/don'ts.
John,
I don't have a key and I didn't let you in nor did I lead the group - I have forgotten who else was present but I seem to recall several members went much further than we did and much faster and had another agenda (can't remember what it was).
Tim,
Before the key was released to you, when you sent your £10 there should have been an agreement you needed to sign and return. The one I had included clauses that I could not photogragh or video and I must not allow other people to photograph or video. I assume you got the same ?
Ian
yer, page 1 of the doc i attached above is the leadership agreement with all the conditions etc.
At a quick scan, the attached document did not seem overly onerous, but the attitude was autocratic and in my view is written in the wrong style to fellow cave and mine explorers. I hope we never write documents in that format.
Yes, others did scamper down to MT to check the reported collapse. I recall this included Joel, Deano, Richard Tims maybe more. I would like to know what percentage of the journey to MT we covered when we got to the same level as the top of the electron ladders to Halkyn Deep.
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=8324] I would like to know what percentage of the journey to MT we covered when we got to the same level as the top of the electron ladders to Halkyn Deep.[/quote]
About 2/3rds I would guess :)
Gosh - so we went a lot further than I thought. I had in my mind that we had only done about 1/5th of the distance. You took us down three big ladders, and then we went along horizontally for a short way and then decided to go back. It amazed me that Joel's team caught up with us by the time we got near to the flooding at the addit entrance.
Whats worthy of note by the way, is that the access agreement, with the no photos/video etc only applies to the Rhyd Alyn Mine itself. I.e. Not everything that can be accessed VIA it. i.e. The HDL and Milwr - with 100+ miles of associated workings :-) It kinda made it worth having a key and putting up with the conditions in my opinion.
Do people in the Mine Explorer and Addit Now gropups also have access to Rhyd Alyn?
It surprises me that they have not chopped the lock.
You don't know the half of it lol :)
This is the "lid" that caused so much trouble with the "independants" and had police involvement. It is as a result of precisely that vigilante behaviour that NWCC issued keys (including some independants) to prevent further break-ins.
;)
Ian
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=8344]Do people in the Mine Explorer and Addit Now gropups also have access to Rhyd Alyn?
It surprises me that they have not chopped the lock.[/quote]
As a supporter of Lock removal (purely my own view, not UCET's), that would only happen if gaining access through "official" means was onerous. As it does not appear to be, the lock being intact is unsurprising. There may also be other entrances I am not aware of that negate the need to apply boltcutters or portable oxyacetylene setups.
I can see both sides of the debate on open access, and I had a lot to ponder after our trip down OHA last Thursday. Les was clearly disturbed by the graffiti on the walls of OHA - especially at the bottom of the cliff. He spent a lot of time and energy obliterating them with mud and wiping the surface so smooth that they cannot be seen any more. This may not have happened if the lid was locked.
In the case of Rhyd Alun, I feel there is a need to protect the crystal chamber from anyone trying to harvest samples. Also the ladders are potentially very dangerous. I think there is a need to revisit the terms of access and also provide the means to get access by a notice at the entrance stating something like 'This mine is protected by the North Wales Caving Club. For access contact : 01234 567898'
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=8357]I can see both sides of the debate on open access, and I had a lot to ponder after our trip down OHA last Thursday. Les was clearly disturbed by the graffiti on the walls of OHA - especially at the bottom of the cliff. He spent a lot of time and energy obliterating them with mud and wiping the surface so smooth that they cannot be seen any more. This may not have happened if the lid was locked.
In the case of Rhyd Alun, I feel there is a need to protect the crystal chamber from anyone trying to harvest samples. Also the ladders are potentially very dangerous. I think there is a need to revisit the terms of access and also provide the means to get access by a notice at the entrance stating something like 'This mine is protected by the North Wales Caving Club. For access contact : 01234 567898'[/quote]
a sign or notice like that would just cause more resentment towards nwcc
from other mine exploreers.
the system THEY have put in place (although not perfect) seems to work
and the lid has stayed on ( so far)
yer - at least they are releasing keys at all. thin ice but things are slowly moving in the right direction....
Are these trips still going a head as I'm finally free on a thursday :woohoo:
I'm a 'maybe' to act as 'NWCC leader' for Rhyd Alyn - depending if my flights are all on time that afternoon. I'd say 50/50 at best! We'd need Mike to go to make it guaranteed i guess. Mike?
If Mike can't make it and I do end up getting there in time we'd need mikes key coz mine is still lost at home somewhere! :-( I certainly wouldn't have time to get from the airport, drop Sarah and Josh at home, get to Mikes for the key and then get back for the trip though.
I suggest that depending how sure mike is that he can get there or not, it might be worth having a back-up trip??? Maeshafn mine maybe?? Might suit the intended spectrum of people and be somewhere 'new' for some of them??
ohh and if i'm not back in time to get underground i'll still try to get to the pub - so are you definitly going to the White Horse (Cilcain) afterwards?
I will PM Mike to ask if he can confirm if he can come to let us into Rhyd Alyn, and hopefully guide us down as far as we all feel happy and capable of going.
Otherwise EITHER...
Maeshafn (which I hate - but Bella loves!).
OR ...
Belgrave, (which Bella and I know quite well now). We can take Chris and others round the loop at the far end of the upp level. I still need a lot of practice to walk down that 'stair case' as fluently and easily as Mike does it.
I don't think Hoss has posted any other plans for 9th, so I suggest that we stick to the meeting place at Cilcaine Bridge regardless of where we eventually all go to. It will be good if Gareth turns up.
There is defo a trip on in Poachers - the Sledghamma party are coming with 2 newbies and I expect Badger is coming too ;)
i should be ok for rhyd alyn i'll be going the brit though
Thanks Mike!
Can I suggest that we all meet at the Cilcain Bridge car park so everyone can meet. It seems there will be a lot of new people. I can then drive the Rhyd Alyn gang around to the caravan park in one vehicle.
I'll be on the Rhyd Alyn trip as it will be my first time.
i will be running late so i have given the key to vikki. i will see you at the entrance
i have a key
Im going straight to rhyd alyn
I was planning on meeting at rhyd alyn also.
As far as I can see the people going on the rhyd alyn trip are
Myself
Mike L
Deano
Dylan
John N & Co
If that's the case then most know where rhyd alyn is and going to cilcain bridge is a bit out of the way for a meet point.
Can I suggest meeting at Rhyd Alyn and if you are unsure where this is that you text or call me and I'll talk you through it (07990 693269).
^^^^^^^ naughty phone line haha
REMEMBER There is no signal for most people in the Alyn Gorge.
We will go to Cilcain Bridge as suggested before in case any others want to join us, and also to welcome and introduce Gareth if he turns up.
I will get to Rhyd Alyn ASAP.
Is Marty comming too?
Thanks for the summary list Vikki.
I hope you can be there to help Bella and me over that awkward stretch again!
John N & Co = John N plus Bella. Unfortunately Chris and Stephany can't come this evening.
Defo won't be out. Connecting flight was delayed, and now the later nanchester flight also delayed. :-(
Thanks for letting us know Tim.
Hopefully we may see you at the pub afterwards.
i cant come to night iam stuck in work till 8pm to night hope to come next week
There seems to be mixed concensus on pub venue, well mike said he is going to the brit? If it remains the white horse i'll be able to slip out for a pint. Let me know, if white horse i'll head for the dirty bar - normal one! :-)
Cant help you with that im afraid Tim - im giving the pub a miss tonight.
If anyone is turning up for the Ryhd Alyn trip tonight that hasnt posted on here.....I will be meeting Deano & Dylan opposite the texaco garage in rhydymwyn on the mold - denbigh road (A541) at 6.25pm and heading up the lane to Rhyd Alyn.
Don't go in the hole until John N and "others" arrive Vikki :)
[quote="Ian" post=8647]Don't go in the hole until John N and "others" arrive Vikki :)[/quote]
Goes without saying Ian, what d'ya take me for!
Well, erm .........
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
Bella and I are just about to leave home, and will meet Ian at Cilcain Bridge car park.
I can provide spare hemetts etc if required.
We may then walk along the river path past OHA to the location.
We will also go to White Horse Tim - dirty bar of course!
Hope to see you there.
Thanks to everyone for another fantastic evening. I really enjoyed it and feel great that I am so much more confident on the laders than I was last time. Bella loved it too.
Also good to meet Nicole Jackson and James. Hopefully we will meet again on another trip soon.
We got as far as the compressor tank. Can anyone say how many more ladders there are before you reach the Sea Level Tunel?
It was a good trip - great to be back underground again.
Thank you for the drink too John! Was brilliant talking to you and Bella.
See you both soon :)
John, I'll hazard a guess at three - my memory is fading though! ;-)
[quote="TimWatts" post=8763]John, I'll hazard a guess at three - my memory is fading though! ;-)[/quote]
IIRC, two and a half, as the last one isnt in the best of conditions (or the second to last) but it was only short anyway