Here it is folks!!
Trip: O.H.A.
Trip Type: Whatever you want it to be?
Meet point: Cilcain Bridge
Meet time: 18.30
Notes: This trip will probably have several opportunities: either a newbie mooch or a trip to/beyond the canal for those who dare?? ELECTRON LADDER on entry & exit and a couple of rope climbs depending how far you enter the system.
I'll be there with one electon ladder.
I believe mike will also be there with a second one (if needed for the climb up to the canal level) and a length of rope for safety lining along the way.
My personal intention will be to race forward to do some work at the sumps - So i'll be lightweight SRT'ing
After all that has been said about OHA on another topic I must come on this one and decide for myself. Is it as shitty hole as Ian describes, or is it as Vikki (bagpuss) said 'The most fantastic cave ever'.
I'll have to give this place a go finally. Is a wetsuit needed?
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=6219]After all that has been said about OHA on another topic I must come on this one and decide for myself. Is it as shitty hole as Ian describes, or is it as Vikki (bagpuss) said 'The most fantastic cave ever'.[/quote]
Vikki is wise - it also happens to be my personal favourite underground place.
[quote="Dylan" post=6220]I'll have to give this place a go finally. Is a wetsuit needed?[/quote]
a wet suit is handy if you are going through the canal . if your not going through the canal i would'nt bother with one as you will over heat.
see you there
[quote="Dylan" post=6220]I'll have to give this place a go finally. Is a wetsuit needed?[/quote]
Dylan,
The tourist trip wont need wetsuit - though you will get damp in the initial puddle filled entrance crawl.
If you want to come to the sumps with me you'll be getting chest deep in the canal, past which it turns into an SRT trip.
Theres a bit of a loose plan for me and one other to sprint to sump 1 and back on thursday evening - coz i want to set the siphon going, then i want to go back possibly late afternoon (probably about 3:30pm-ish) on saturday once the sump has emptied to take some measurements and make some marks on the wall.
If you wanted to do the tourist trip on Thursday night - have a good look round the first part of the cave, then do another longer trip with me at the weekend that would be cool?
Do you need SRT to get to the canals? I do have a wet suit but don't mind getting wet in normal old clothes.
whats on my mind? - that even if i ran 2mm2 cable the 1km distance i'm thinking of to drive a 1amp 12v pump, the volt drop would 9.6v - leaving me just 2 and a bit volts at the far end. If i pumped 24v in to it i'd get around 14v at the far end though...... still, 1000m of 2mm^2 2 core cable (circa £200) and 2x 12v batteries in series (pinch them out of the landy!) and a suitable 12v diaphragm pump (£30) aint gonna be as cheap as i was hoping...........
I might just do the begginers trip first as its my first time in there.
[quote="TimWatts" post=6226]whats on my mind? - that even if i ran 2mm2 cable the 1km distance i'm thinking of to drive a 1amp 12v pump, the volt drop would 9.6v - leaving me just 2 and a bit volts at the far end. If i pumped 24v in to it i'd get around 14v at the far end though...... still, 1000m of 2mm^2 2 core cable (circa £200) and 2x 12v batteries in series (pinch them out of the landy!) and a suitable 12v diaphragm pump (£30) aint gonna be as cheap as i was hoping...........[/quote]
Why not use LiPo's? 3S packs kick out 12+v when charged, the 11.1v is only nominal. A pack straight off the charger will be 12.6v
Lipo's are plenty light enough to take down with you, no worrying about Voltage drop over insane distances of conductor. Li-Ion are a good 2nd option, and I have a 3S2P pack (4.4AH) that you can try out to see if You like it enough to invest a little in.
yer, but the point is, to remotely power and control the pump from outside. ok, so a pack could be taken in and a smaller sized cable used as a switching wire via a relay. but even lipo's don't sit well holding charged state for prolonged periods.... I.e. months on end. Also, cable has dual use as coms in case of rescue etc. the existing cable that was put in for coms is not in a great condition...... I.e. lots and lots of breaks.
p.s. got plenty of lithium ion packs here. I make them up for my lamps :-)
Crikey, this sounds fantastic, a lot of excitement for a weekday, its a pity I will be on Dads taxi duty for my girls on the D of E.
[quote="JohnNicholson" post=6225]Do you need SRT to get to the canals? I do have a wet suit but don't mind getting wet in normal old clothes.[/quote]
john, no. theres an initial electon ladder at the entrance, then a knotted rope to decend, then a rather dodgy rope assisted free climb, but we can fit a ladder here prior to u getting there to make this easier. All of these will be lifelined on this trip so a harness or belt would be.an advantage.
[quote="TimWatts" post=6232]yer, but the point is, to remotely power and control the pump from outside. ok, so a pack could be taken in and a smaller sized cable used as a switching wire via a relay. but even lipo's don't sit well holding charged state for prolonged periods.... I.e. months on end. Also, cable has dual use as coms in case of rescue etc. the existing cable that was put in for coms is not in a great condition...... I.e. lots and lots of breaks.[/quote]
I didn't realise there was a cable in-situ already. 1KM of cable, 12v 1A load, and 2 core for Comms? Will Co-axial type cable do?
I *may* be able to do something about that for not much money... let me have an ask.
[quote="TimWatts" post=6235][quote="JohnNicholson" post=6225]Do you need SRT to get to the canals? I do have a wet suit but don't mind getting wet in normal old clothes.[/quote]
john, no. theres an initial electon ladder at the entrance, then a knotted rope to decend, then a rather dodgy rope assisted free climb, but we can fit a ladder here prior to u getting there to make this easier. All of these will be lifelined on this trip so a harness or belt would be.an advantage.[/quote]
Tim regarding dodgy rope, does this mean the rope is crap, I've got some here if you want to swap it? I can meet you in the car park before you set off
The rope is fine for climbing - it's dodgy because it is a freeclimb which requires good stamina.
There are several tourist trips that do not require an ascent up that rope in any event. Having got down the ladder it is possible to fester in different parts of the cave without any additional SRT or canal dipping. There is, however, another short knotted roper descent/ascent which is easy enough.
John ... the reason I say it is shitty is because you will get wet and cacked up almost immediately when you go in and you will be cold. If you avoid further wet and cack inside (which is hard) you get it again on your way out and it is unavoidable. The cave itself is very impressive.
I will, however, be elsewhere in the country on Thursday evening and regret I will miss the excitement :(
Ian
[quote="Ian" post=6240]
I will, however, be elsewhere in the country on Thursday evening and regret I will miss the excitement :(
Ian[/quote]
Are you really going elsewhere in the country to avoid going down OHA? :lol:
Yes and Yes :silly:
no, the existing cable is bell wire - not for current carrying. just for emergency coms. But its well ripped apart after many years of being crawled all over.
i was considering options for a remotely triggered system to pull a vacume on the siphon tube in sump one - its a hell of a trip to get to it to use a manual pump to start the siphon (as we do now) and then back out again, wait a few days for the siphon to empty the sump and then back in again to get through the (now dry) sump.
How much is OHA affected by the river? At the moment the Alyn is absolutely tanking water down probably not relenting for a couple of days looking at the forecast.
For those interested
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/34681.aspx?area=101FWFWN212
Quick answer: it's not. Al least not untill well after the canals. And even then, I'm not sure if it is.
not true joel. its filled right to the entrance in the past. i'll nip down and check it later though. think it'll be fine.
I thought that it either floods or it doesn't. Water levels are not affected down there when the cave is not in flood? In other words, there is no variable water level such as there is in the milwr tunnel?
Maybe I've never been down in wet times then :)
Edit: out of interest, in the past when it has been in flood, does the river overflow and enter the system via the lid, or does it enter via a sinkhole lower down in the system?
May I join you on this one? Sounds a good trip from what i hear.
I've only ever seen the river in dry conditions so it'll be good to see it in its current condition too :)
TLH.
Tom. It's by far the best system in the area :)
Ask Ian. :p
I've read through everybody's comments and yes, it sounds it. OHA is one i'd like to do as is poachers (didnt get down to the watery bits..)
TLH
Tom - yes you are always welcome to come along ;)
Joel - I have never seen it flood "in" by the entrance. I don't know the source of the water inside but it has flooded in (from somewhere) up to the first short rope descent after the long crawl.
Additionally, the long crawl receives water through the rock above and when the ground oustide is saturated (and I believe it is) then the crawl takes on water and makes the trek along it awful. It can also result in a duck half way along.
If the weather stays wet I would except an extremely wet and muddy crawl.
Can't say I'll miss the old girl when I am away tommorrow evening :)
Ian
In Manchester... Actually gutted :(
OHA is awesome. Have fun everyone xxx
Where by are we to meet? and at what time? :) I shall see you there..
TLH
[quote="Ian" post=6253]
Joel - I have never seen it flood "in" by the entrance. I don't know the source of the water inside but it has flooded in (from somewhere) up to the first short rope descent after the long crawl.
Additionally, the long crawl receives water through the rock above and when the ground oustide is saturated (and I believe it is) then the crawl takes on water and makes the trek along it awful. It can also result in a duck half way along.
If the weather stays wet I would except an extremely wet and muddy
Ian[/quote]
Cheers Ian. Clearly I was Missinformed on the water levels. Apologies for spouting drivel :p
Cilcain bridge tom :)
Im a try and make it i finish work in caernarfon at 5 tomorrow will welly
It back :)
Ok. See you at the bridge - Have you any Co-ordinates? I vaguely know where it is I think!
TLH
[quote="Deano" post=6257]Cilcain bridge tom :)
Im a try and make it i finish work in caernarfon at 5 tomorrow will welly
It back :)[/quote]
Don't let the police catch you :D
its a tricky one this . ive been down oha when the river has been a meter away from the entrance and its been wet but fine . ive also been down when there is little water in the river and it has been flooded , once at the boulder chamber were the first rope climb is
as its been raining for a few days now i think we will make a judgement call on the night :dry: :dry: :dry: see you there
Haha i'll be going too quick for them to spot me :p
[quote="Deano" post=6261]Haha i'll be going too quick for them to spot me :p[/quote]
your ONE OF THEM NOW so even if they do catch you they will let you off for sure. especially if you give them one of those funny"ian" hand shakes :P :P :P :P
Yer i wish it was like that haha dont think i could of got us out of trouble if the coppers had seen what was coming out the back of the landy on sunday haha !
[quote="Deano" post=6263]Yer i wish it was like that haha dont think i could of got us out of trouble if the coppers had seen what was coming out the back of the landy on sunday haha ![/quote]
i just wish dylan's camera had the same view ali had now that would have been funny :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Haha she was having a good old mooch wasnt she !
I went to have a look at the river level yesterday and it is quite close to the lid!!
Thanks to Mike and Tim for an excellent trip. Amazing to experience a system in flood and still get to the sumped chamber at the end.
How was OHA? Did you all have a good trip? :)
We had a fantastic trip - see above. But missed you there.
In fact we went white water surfing down a hole we both know well.
PS... Can't believe Joel's new car. I will have to put seat covers in my van so he does not get his bottom dirty.
I do love OHA. Glad you enjoyed it.
I've been in Manchester so I am yet to meet the new Audi... He hasn't shut up about it though.
Should have seen the state he handed the hire car back in after our weekend mining in Ffestiniog :huh:
X
...Should have seen the state he handed the hire car back in after our weekend mining in Ffestiniog...
I could say the same about my van after our trips!
But of course that's what it is for. Old vans are good for mucking about in.
By the way, you can still take me down OHA for the first time......
Who had the camera for this trip?
I would love to see any of the pictures.
Nick Hughes took the camera - i'll see if he's got any pics.
Thanks Tim.