United Cavers Exploration Team

Cave and Mine Exploring => Trips and Events => Topic started by: Tim Watts on Apr 03, 2012, 02:03 AM

Title: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 03, 2012, 02:03 AM
I'm considering applying for a Permit for the Gouffre Berger during the Summer of 2013.

Invites to all UCET members, extended to other NW club members, and 'others'.

I need a feel for the amount of interest from within UCET.

Permits are normally for 10 days i think.

I may drive there and back to shift all the gear if its cost effective compared to flying - can obviously seat a few people or get a cheapo flight there and back.

As such - cost per person would be minimal.

It was the first cave to go beyond 1000m (thats m not ft!) deep, although has since been overtaken on this count. It not all that technical - although full SRT and Rigging needed, and it is a 'long' trip underground depending how deep we aimed to get.

The point is - between now and 2013 anyone could get up to speed in terms of the technicalities required as there is nothing 'that' technically difficult.

If you've got even half an interest then please give me a nod below...

Tim

There are loads of trip reports etc online ie.

 http://www.caving.ie/wp/wp-content/uploads/2004-Gouffre-Berger-Report.pdf

and

 http://www.caving.ie/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006-Berger.pdf

etc etc

Names in hat:

1 Tim Watts (UCET)
2 FranktheSurf (UCET
3 Aliweb (UCET)
4 Deano (UCET)
5 (Suboffender) (UCET)

Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Frank Hill on Apr 03, 2012, 07:18 AM
Hi Tim
I feel like I have an appointment with this cave after the last epic and  failed attempt in the early 80's.
Pending dates I'm in.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 06, 2012, 10:34 PM
Is that it? Just Frank and I?

Looks like i'll have to spread the invite on ukcaving.com - i want to get about 20 - 30 people on the trip!
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ian A on Apr 06, 2012, 10:56 PM
Tim,

The first I saw of this post was 22:54 6th April 2012 - I noted that it had been up 3 days+ when I saw your post "is that it ... just me and Frank..."

Seriously, is it just me that is having problems with the webby or is there an underlying issue at programming level ?

:unsure:

Ian
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 06, 2012, 11:42 PM
i suspect that you just missed it when i was first posted.

Just you i think (hope) darling! ;-)

Still having problems with Explorer? Did you manage to do a test with google chrome for me yet??
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Alison Webster on Apr 07, 2012, 12:11 PM
Tim - I'd be interested in this trip too.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Dean Wood on Apr 07, 2012, 02:29 PM
Oh go on then put me as showing an interest
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Apr 07, 2012, 03:18 PM
Put me down as interested. It's dependant on dates though.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Claire Brimson on Apr 08, 2012, 04:50 PM
Wahooooooooooo
Put me down - dates dependant :)

:cheer: dude

btw... you Guy and me need another beer time........;)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 08, 2012, 06:50 PM
I was actually thinking that maybe we need to talk you into another mendips trip?

And another OHA sumps trip?
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: mike leahy on Apr 08, 2012, 08:56 PM
[quote="TimWatts" post=5849]I was actually thinking that maybe we need to talk you into another mendips trip?

And another OHA sumps trip?[/quote]

defo . have you done the crtt video yet mr speilberge
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 08, 2012, 09:35 PM
Speilberg or Gouffre-Berg? haha

no. But i'm planning to make a start on it when i get up to my cabin later - unless i get a better offer haha
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: mike leahy on Apr 08, 2012, 09:52 PM
[quote="TimWatts" post=5851]. when i get up to my cabin  i get a better offer haha[/quote]

 your on a oil rig in the middle of the north sea, of coarse your'll get a better offer :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Claire Brimson on Apr 09, 2012, 05:10 AM
[quote="TimWatts" post=5849]I was actually thinking that maybe we need to talk you into another mendips trip?

And another OHA sumps trip?[/quote]


Mendip - where do you fancy going? and when?

OHA - thats what I meant re: another beer time (after OHA)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 09, 2012, 05:17 AM
I'll start a new thread and suggest some weekends.....

check:

http://ucet.org.uk/index.php/forum/13-trips-events/5859-mendip-weekend-2012#5859
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ali Wiseman on Apr 09, 2012, 10:38 PM
I very much doubt I have the stamina for this at the moemnt... unnles I've looked up the wrong place, it's over 1KM vertical!

Might need to work up to that.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 09, 2012, 10:39 PM
yer - 1.2km to the bottom. get hitting the gym fella!
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ali Wiseman on Apr 10, 2012, 01:03 AM
One of the reasons I love underground exploration... no need for a fecking Fitness first membership!

Just need to arrange things to get out more often, though the tree outside my house works for a spot of SRT practice (Re-belaying up and down), and if the Neighbours think I'm "bloody crazy", so much the better.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Apr 10, 2012, 10:34 AM
Only 400 metres Of the vertical difference is done on ropes I was reading, the rest is hiking and crawling. Still sounds like a good challenge to me :)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ali Wiseman on Apr 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
Interesting...

I have a proviosonal "Yes" from the other half.

I suppose I had better get a passport sorted out then.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Frank Hill on Apr 10, 2012, 09:05 PM
[quote="Suboffender" post=5909]Only 400 metres Of the vertical difference is done on ropes I was reading, the rest is hiking and crawling. Still sounds like a good challenge to me :)[/quote]

And a night underground, upside down mountaineering!!
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Vikki Sestan on Apr 10, 2012, 09:53 PM
AMAZING! Count me in :-)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Apr 10, 2012, 10:56 PM
[quote="cavefrog" post=5926]AMAZING! Count me in :-)[/quote]

If you can run a marathon, you can do this.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Apr 10, 2012, 10:58 PM
[quote="frankthesurf" post=5925][quote="Suboffender" post=5909]Only 400 metres Of the vertical difference is done on ropes I was reading, the rest is hiking and crawling. Still sounds like a good challenge to me :)[/quote]

And a night underground, upside down mountaineering!![/quote]


And just a night underground? easy peasy. Last time I slept down a mine, i slept for 12 hours :silly:

If i can send a week in the field with the TA with helicopters and fast jets launching flares at me every hour keeping me awake im sure i can spend a night in a cave.

Anyone seen sanctum? First thing i thought of when i noticed this trip :)
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaZHjv3ASfw[/video]
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 11, 2012, 01:32 AM
I made the mistake of taking Sarah to see Sanctum at the cinema when it came out.

Prior to seeing it she'd agreed to me getting a rebreather (me and an ex-navy diver at work were going to get them at the same time). Half way through one of the first scenes of the film she leans across and said "You're not getting a rebreather".......... and that was that.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: mike leahy on Apr 14, 2012, 05:36 PM
give les from the wessex a nudge, there booked in this august. and they will probably go next year as well , that will bump the numbers up .oh les is still in mulu caving at the moment but should be back in a fortnight ish.they are also coming up to northwales on 2nd,3rd,4th,5th of june .  :woohoo: PARTY :woohoo:
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 14, 2012, 07:05 PM
Mike, I know - I already spoke to Les about it a while ago. He invited me on the Wessex trip but it clashes with work :-(

It was Les who suggested I apply for a permit for next year - and open it up to fill places.Permits for 2013 have to be in October (before the November cut-off).

Wessex only do it every few years - its too big a thing for them to arrange every year (he says).

I'm off for 2,3,4,5 June :-) PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!! - Any plans yet?
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Claire Brimson on Apr 14, 2012, 07:09 PM
party in Finlando is much better :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ali Wiseman on Apr 14, 2012, 11:03 PM
Just a quick question.

How much is this going to cost? Having looked around the net a little bit... that's a LOT of kit needed.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Apr 15, 2012, 03:13 AM
Very loosly speaking.....

Its your personal food and travel (I may drive the landy over with the trailer so some seats there) or a cheapo flight and then split cost for hire of mini bus/van in france (for ten days)

Its cheap camping fees

Some (slightly out of date info on travel and camping costs here):
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/85493680/Gouffre-Berger-2010

Regarding the actual expedition costs: Some people buy rope out there to save on costs transporting it.

Assuming we bought all new rope it would be in the region of 850m of rope and around 100 hangers.

I'd say about £2000 quids worth or gear (maybe less) but of course there is already a quantity of rope in the club which we could take, and of course any rope we bought could maybe be bought by the club afterwards - or in the first place? - I might be speaking out of turn here - only an idea! We'd probably need more rope/equipment bags too.

I imagine about 30 people in total, possibly a mix of some people who might only want to make the -600m target and some who wanted to push for the full -1200m?

Theres some other gear we'd need to think about too, i.e. hiring underground radio sets etc. Lets take worst case that the expedition costs were about £3000 all in, thats £100 each between 30 people. Plus cheapo flights and car hire etc - Say another £150 each?

I think it could be done for under £100 (expedition) + £200 (personal) transport = £300

Obviously people will need additional gear of their own that they may not already have. i.e. for spending a night(s) underground etc.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Ali Wiseman on Apr 15, 2012, 07:42 AM
That's not as bad as I was thinking, and do-able. As you say though, I'll need a couple of other goodies for a night underground. Oh, and I still need that Stamina... plenty of time to get that though.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Marc Vanderbruggen on Apr 26, 2012, 11:43 AM
Hi Tim,

I'm new here. I live in Belgium. I'm very interested joining the UCET to the Berger.
After attemted several long and deep caves, the Berger is one standing my list to do.

Maybe this can interest you:
http://www.scavalon.be/webalbums/Big%20Cave%20Trips/Gouffre%20Berger/index.html
This is a photo report from the aproach to the bottom, done by Caving Club Avalon from Antwerp Belgium.

Cheers Marc
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Vikki Sestan on May 01, 2012, 10:46 PM
Hi Marc, nice photo journal - some great pics

So excited about this trip :-)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: mike leahy on May 03, 2012, 07:15 PM
THIS IS A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING AND SHOULD'NT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY
    you should be able to srt with boxing gloves on whilst blind folded ect ect ect :S :S :S
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Marc Vanderbruggen on May 04, 2012, 11:27 AM
Find some great pic's of Robert Shone
Cave photographer Robert Shone explores the Gouffre Berger Cave in France (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/8731275/Cave-photographer-Robert-Shone-explores-the-Gouffre-Berger-Cave-in-France.html)

The cave presents no major difficulties under normal conditions, especially in the upper half. See this:
Gouffre Berger (http://latronche.free.fr/berger.html#recom_en)
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on May 04, 2012, 01:28 PM
Marc, hi.

Yes, I know robbie quite well - he's an old school freind of mine.

Yes, the technicalities of the trip aren't difficult from what i understand. In terms of people following down the rigged ropes. What is much more of a headache is the organisations and planning involved. A hell of a lot of rope and gear to shift in and out - expedition style. Having had a chat to a few who have done the Berger, the entrance series can start to get a little repetitive after sever times in and out lugging gear.

Most people say to prepare in terms out a mountaineering trip, i.e. training for long walks and scrambles carrying heavyish packs. Of the 1200ish meters much of it its walking up and down 'slopes' - although obviously theres lots of SRT too.

I expect that i'll find people with rigging experience of the Berger which is obviously a big issue - can save lots of time through experience in this area. I'm getting the feeling that there is probably more than enough interest in the trip to make it viable - permits to be submitted in October so theres some time yet to reach a decision.

I'll need help organising things obviously.

Tim
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Marc Vanderbruggen on May 04, 2012, 08:33 PM
Hi Tim,

I'm caving now 22 years. I've teaching speleology (SRT) for 8 years at the Flemish association for caving, called VVS.

I have undertaken some great classic caves like the Pierre Saint Martin, Traversée du Verneau, Dent des Crolles, Reseau de l'Alpe, Jean Bernard, Aven Autran (= 800m ropes with 3 persons in 5 days) etc. Now I'm preparing a trip to South Wales for Ogof Ffynnon Ddu, Ogof Dreanen and Ogof Daren Cilau. We are staying at the SWCC cottage, Swansea Valley, from may 13th to 20th.

I also know a lot of people who has make this trip. For ropes and hangers I can take a lot with me.

When I'm back from Wales, I can start to prepare some.
In July I'm going caving a week to the Vercors. Maybe I can contact some in the region.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Tim Watts on Aug 07, 2012, 12:03 AM
I know a few of you are intersted but i've been considering, new baby in october - which will come just as aplications for permit goes in and then a frantic time to organise it over the next few months, rally a big enough group to make it viable. etc.

With one or two other changes in circumstances i don't want to commit to organising it for next year at least.

I'm hoping however to get myself on someone elses trip next year - i have a contact/lead -  and if i do get an opening i'll let those of you who were interested know in case there is a slot for you too.
Title: Re: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Edward Coghlan on Sep 04, 2012, 08:48 AM
I would defo be interested dates depending :)
Title: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Oct 04, 2012, 11:10 PM
Just had this e-mail through from the combined services caving association. I'm no longer in the TA, so I'm no longer a member, but I seem to be one the mailing list anyway. I get the impression that they are also quite open to non service members

Thought this might be of Interest;

FAO all cavers.
 
Early discussions around the potential to get WWTW servicemen to the bottom of the Berger in 2014 are underway.  Should the idea be adopted by WWTW, the CSCA would like to investigate the possibility of forming a team in partnership with another club/ clubs and other service cavers in order to attract sufficient capable cavers.  The project offers a real opportunity to get some positive advertisement for UK caving.  Anybody that would like to register an interest should contact the CSCA via: cscaberger2014@militarycaving.co.uk
Title: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Edward Coghlan on Oct 05, 2012, 08:16 AM
Oooo now that could make things easier :)
Title: The Gouffre Berger 2013
Post by: Joel Colk on Oct 05, 2012, 08:19 AM
They certainly have the kit for it. Might be worth seeing if anyone from DCC fancies it and getting in touch?

That way, members from UCET could jump on too, should the need arise.  :kiss: