hi there,my names Ryan,I live in Nova Scotia,Canada,and am somewhat new to caves.Ive done some caves in the past,but due to the failure of this Canadian province,caving is so new you only hear about it on the internet,TV or movies around here.There are only 3 known caves in the province,with well over 100 more kept secret.And dont even ask about mines-over 7000 of them,maybe more-unexplored.
Myself and some friends have taken it upon ourselves to find these caves,explore them,map them,and share them with likewise responsible cavers.
Would there be any advice from the elite caver for the exploration of new systems?
hi ryan
you will find it easier to locate most cave/mine entrances in snowy conditions as the temperature under ground will be warmer than above so you quite often find entrances because of the lack of snow around them .its also very important to let some one know your location and have a call in time (aprox). there is some really good survey equipment out there these days , i'll ask tim to give you some details of some survey equipment. have you done any srt(single rope technique) before . if not i would strongly advise it .a good start would be to look at the complete caving manual , by andy sparrow and srt by troll
Welcome to the website Ryan ... please use it for everything you need and when you get your own up we can share info :woohoo:
Ian
I havent had a chance to try SRT beyond a quick demonstration unfortunately,and as my province is undeveloped in regards to most adventure sports,theres not many places to learn-although there are individuals trained in SRT that dont advertise.
Gear has to be ordered off EBay or such places,theres nothing within probably 600 miles that even offers any climbing gear,let alone caving gear.I asked about caving coveralls/overalls in several places,the store reps looked at me like i was a hobgoblin or murderer!SRT Gear-OMG when i mentioned that,they thought it was some specialized super gear found only in NASA rockets.You see my problem here yet lol?
As for caves and mines,some are known,but the federal government treats them like the AIDs epidemic,something evil to be feared and not to poke around in.There are estimated 2000 openings(mines and caves) in Nova Scotia that are accessible in the fashion of the places you guys go,the rest are pit mines,trench mines,or super dangerous gypsum karst caves along the banks of muddy rivers,I have a pic and video somewheres of a place called Hells Gateway,inside is riverbank mud 3o feet deep,to fall into it would be deadly.Some of my new formed caving group-East Coast Crawlers-have contacts and info regarding other cave systems that are safe,and unexplored.imagine-going in and finding cave paintings,or skeletons(the Hells Angels motorcycle gang has used caves and mines in NS to dump dead bodies in,including the 1st cave we are doing on the 26th),or gold.other tales tell of Glooscap-who may have been Prince Henry Sinclair,Earl of Orkney and member of Knights Templar circa 1300s-having used caves for residence and people having come across metal doors and artifacts inside of them.Ever hear of Oak Island and Captain Kidd?Thats 120 km away from my door,so we have plenty of mysteries that involve caves here.I myself found a type of glacial cave that has stirred up a hornets nest here,it looks like one of the Celtic/Egyptian tombs,and housed Mi'kmaw indians(and rumored to be a burial place of a knight).You can see that there is much to be seen,found,and shared from my area!
In relation to gear,access to caving suits is currently non existent,but there is plenty of military surplus here.I was looking at a few kinds of drysuit coveralls,and some synthetic fibre suits similar to the Warmbac ones you guys have,what recommendations would you have in regards to narrowing down the search,until I can find a proper suit in a few months?Also,gear like caving/climbing helmets and stuff is in the same boat as the suits,but we've found some decent fitting sports helmets and fitted some lights(waterproof,shockproof,can be run over by a car LED lights called Energizer Hardcase)to them with carefully added straps to hold lights so they dont slip.Petzl is our goal in regards to this though,but again,EBay or online ordering is our only choice.Boots are easy to find here as there ais a lot of fishing in the area,I have a decent pair of wellies as they are referred to.Gear is a work in progress,any input in regards to this would be fantastic.Thanks for letting me ramble on!
Permission to chuckle at the n00bs in caves granted lol :D
And about the snow Ian,the ground here freezes solid under the 4 feet of snow we get each winter,even entrances freeze up and get covered over under he harsh Canadian winter.When it comes to the tales of winter in Canada,its basically true.
When I go hunting caves and mines I never go in alone,that is inviting a Floyd Collins type of thing.I always have GPS and at least 1 person has the coords and return time.As a hunter of these places and other things,I have a set of rules that must followed,or else risk trouble.
1.Never go into spots solo
2.Always provide GPS,map,and time of return to at least 1 person
3.Always carry extra gear in case
4.Always have food/water on hand
5.Canadian caves/mines house bears,be prepared
6.Weather changes fast here,make sure I know whats coming before I go.
7.The folly of most adventurers is going further than they should when they should be starting the return trip and burning themselves out.You can always return to the same spot again.
8.Plan,plan,and plan some more.know who,what,when,where and why before leaving your house before entering any unknown place.
9.the quality and condition of gear is essential,keep it clean and in good shape,the smallest piece might be what saves your life.
10.Always have fun,at the end of the day,take time to unwind,whether its a snooze,meal,drink or smoke.This is essential for any adventuring persons morale.
Hi Ryan and welcome to UCET :)
Those rules that you mention seem to be fairly standard in our caving community, apart from the one about bears. The closest thing we have to a bear over here is Marty, and he doesn't go into caves :cheer:
Just had a look at this website; http://www.cancaver.ca/ (http://www.cancaver.ca/)
Seems like you have some fantastic caves over there, looking forward to hearing some trip reports or photos from you :).
Your talk of ice and snow reminded me of something i saw on UK caving a few years back link (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=5240.msg73350#msg73350)
Although it's a Mine, there's some interesting pics towards the bottom of Ice formation pics.
Ryan,
What Mike is alluding to with the snow is;
The temperature undergound is a constant, circa, 7 degrees (allowing for draughts) and is unaffected by the outside temperature. Since heat rises, if there is a subterranean passageway (cave or mine) that is coming to surface (even if the exit is only a percolation)it is impossible for there to be snow or ice at that point and you will have just discovered a cave or mine (easy to see if the landscape is covered in snow)
In unexplored terrority like yours this would be very exciting :woohoo:
Ian
The insides of the mines and caves here are quite warmer inside than he outside,but the temperature here is a static -2 Celcius to +3 Celcius unless its summer,but even with those temperatures,things just melt and refreeze even worse-ice tends to go quite a ways into the caves.Heres a pic of some ice in a cave I was in to give you an idea.
As well,pics 3 and 4 are of the Vault Cave,one of only 2 of its kind in the world,and one of the most dangerous.A split in the basalt bedrock,it is unknown how far in it goes or where.Other pics show the snow we get,on one of my searches.
x
hi ryan
try utube for srt practice. give you an idea what your letting yourself in for , personally its the only way to get about in big vertical systems. be careful about the gear you by on ebay make sure its not to worn . a lot of guys who work on the oil rigs have to get rid of there gear every year so you can get some good stuff. like i said before the two books i mentioned before you should be able to get on ebay ( there like rocking horse shit ) but keep looking and they should come up now and then
Heres the pics I tried to send earlier.
1st 2 show example of the ice we get in cave entrances.
next 3 show the Vault Cave
Last shows rediculous snow fall.
Trying to upload pics ,wont let me.It actually reset my ethernet!
A quick test to double check that a registered but non UCET member (i.e. Ryan) can post photos.And the answer is.......yes!
Ryan, I assume you're using the attachements box towards the bottom of the edit window. then 'add file' then either click submit (or if you want it inserted into the text like this then click 'insert'
(Josh takes Daddy Caving!)
Give it another go and let me know. Thanks for being my official non-ucet test dummy!
I trust you got my email - welcome :-)
Tim Watts (Looged in under test account)
Vault cave
Ice in cave mouth,entrance almost blocked
Snowfall
A nice view :D
let me try ????
yep think ive got the hang of that one ????
Hi Ryan.
Where abouts in Nova Scotia are you based? Its a big area!! Having been west of you, I understand the predicament of vastness AND the fact that bears also live in caves!! along with wolves etc... I will try a few of my contacts for any help.
[quote="Ian" post=264]Ryan,
What Mike is alluding to with the snow is;
The temperature undergound is a constant, circa, 7 degrees (allowing for draughts) and is unaffected by the outside temperature. Since heat rises, if there is a subterranean passageway (cave or mine) that is coming to surface (even if the exit is only a percolation)it is impossible for there to be snow or ice at that point and you will have just discovered a cave or mine (easy to see if the landscape is covered in snow)
In unexplored terrority like yours this would be very exciting :woohoo:
Ian[/quote]
Ian. the temperature further north differs completly to over here. In high North West Canada ground can freeze 3 meters deep, even more - ive seen it! In Alaska, the caves there are iced over deep underground! There they sometimes have to chisel out mamouth bones etc from mud ice! and the underground rivers are ice rivers until they get deeper into the cave system!
I have decided you need a slap (on the backside)! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
I was clarifying Mike's post, not making a point AND if there were perculation to the surface there would be a "bare" patch regardless :P
If you want to discuss thermodynamics ... bring it on B)
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :silly:
Ian
I live in Annapolis Royal Nova Scotia,the oldest part of Canada :D
btw I still cannot post pics,regardless of what I try...trying random pic to see what happens w this message,inserted
1)Click 'add file'
2)Browse to your photo and click 'open'.
3)Click the 'insert' button NB: Skip this ste if you want it attached as an attachemnt rather than inserted into the test)
4)Press Submit
If it doesn't work after following the above, please confirm that you are using the lastest copy of either:
[ul]
[li]* Internet Explorer[/li]
[li]* Firefox[/li]
[li]* Google Chrome[/li]
[/ul]
If in doubt install the latest copy of google chrome from: http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en-GB/landing_tv.html
It only adds the text for the pic and location from my drive when I insert,and not inserting just logs me out.
I am using Mozilla Firefox at the moment.Have Chrome,trying now...
Ryan - i can't understand this one - can you help me out, please confirm that you are using firefox 3.6.15 (The latest release version) from http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
Please can you let me know what version of windows you are using, XP, Vista, 7 etc.
I've just tested it on 3 computers, Windows Vista with Firefox, windows 7 pro with firefox and Ubuntu with Firefox and all seem ok.
would you mind trying it on Google Chrome or Internet explorer if you have them installed and see if they work for you?
I'm determined to get to the bottom of this! :silly:
I just tried on Chrome-same issue-it uploads and uploads and goes on for a few minutes,up to 5-6 minutes like I am on an old modem(DSL line here tho),than it pops me to a screen that has my name,an empty profile picture,and a Logout button ,all in the top left of the screen.
When i try the insert method,it just places the text you see into my post.And when I try to do a straight upload,nothing.
I use Windows 7 ultimate for my OS,Firefox and Chrome so far for browsers.
x
It completely disconnected Internet Explorer from my internet.As well,it reset my DSL modem when I tried to upload.Could it be a bit of programming at the membership level?Make a fake account n try.
As well,I noticed that when I add an attachment,it doesnt give my files name or location.My files are not on C:\fakepath\DSCF2658.JPG it displays are the origin,they are on my D: drive.I have an excellent knowledge of computer usage,but no programming,so fire away the questions :D
On a brighter,non uploading issue bit of caving,I had a fortuitous bit of luck!I had purchased a less that adequate suit in haste,I called up the store,returned it(a military surplus store)and had a small heart attack,they had one military grade CRT suit from the Canadian Forces.A rare find.And in Camo Green lol.Waterproofed,preinsulated,straps,and I was able to go hiking in 11 Celcius weather and never died of heat stroke-much.Next I hopped in a lake just thawing,sat in it and had a coffee.And stayed reasonably warm.Score!And most of the snow is almost gone here in the last week-I am not sure as to the seasonal change in the UK,but here its nuts,the winds are enough to toss cats around right now.
Thanks for the tips on SRT gear as well,the oil rig workers idea is great!
Another question is a company called Landjoff,if anyone has tried their bags or gear.The quality looks good for the price,but then again fools gold looks good too.
The c:/fakepath thing is correct - it 'hides' your real filepath to help protect your privacy - i really can't understand whats going on - i'll look further into it. Thanks a million for doing the tests.. The insert method will only work once the file is uploaded - for some reason your isp isn't letting you upload the file and that seems very strange. I can't think of any reason (or way) that it should happen - you're the only person i know of (up to now) whos having any problems but its bugging me as to why as you seem to be doing everything correctly. I'm starting to suspect it may be a firewall type issue at your end or something....???
What resolution & file size is the photo you are trying to upload? If you get a moment would you try uploading a smaller image just for test purposes.
Yes, i've got some of their gear - 2 caving bags. Had them several months and i've been very happy with them up to now. I'd happily recommend them (for the price!)
Thanks again for your help!!
OK Firewall is off,going to try to upload a rediculous picture resolution 475 x 437,44.8 kb in size
Seems like Firewall is the issue.is there any exception I should allow?an IP # or such being blocked via Firewall seems to be the issue..
x
Heres the pics I tried to send earlier.The issue is file size-a file larger than 500kb cannot be uploaded.I have resized 10 pics different ways and have tried for an hour.Problem solved!Pics cannot exceed 1000 x 1000 pixels or 500 kb.
1st 2 show example of the ice we get in cave entrances.
next 3 show the Vault Cave
last show snowfall,on an easy winter
file size limit was set to 5mb - i've just increased it to 10mb.
Can't image why your firewall should require any setting other than the normal web port being open - as default.
OK So...
Picture issue solved-if the pic is too large,above 500kb,I cannot upload.Also,some issue with my firewall(its been a problem for a lot on my PC)has caused me to time out.Issue fixed,I hope!Enjoy the pics!
Awesome ice formations :woohoo:
Cave mouth
snow galore
me-Im 6 ft tall but kneeling,some of those formations are 6-10 feet long.
[quote="Ryan" post=281]I live in Annapolis Royal Nova Scotia,the oldest part of Canada :D
btw I still cannot post pics,regardless of what I try...trying random pic to see what happens w this message,inserted
[/quote]
This is exactly the same problem that I am having, so it's not just an unregistered users problem.:kiss:
Doug.
Its the file size!I cannot upload anything larger than 500kb or resolution of 1000 x 1000 for a single file,up to a max of 5mb or so.
Use MS Paint and resize the picture than retry,working for me!
Here is an example of winter i know will blow you away.This is from a friend of mine that lives in the eastern part of Nova Scotia.
Yes,those are power lines,normally 25 feet up.
Hi Mike
Is that the quarry between Pantymwyn and Rhydymwyn??
[quote="mike leahy" post=273]let me try ????
[/quote]
hi frank
no it's llanymynech . there are omly three routes on the small quarry betweem pantymwym and rhydymwn for now , might try and put some more up this year
Here is some classic gypsum karst.The dips are 3-30 feet deep where the gypsum has eroded and sunk in,while the hills and ridges go up to 30 ft in height,like being on the moon.
Gypsum cliffs-crumbles too easy cannot be climbed easily.
gypsum karst,smaller stuff
Last few instability of said gypsum karst-those boulders fell in the last year.Not pictured yet are the new possible cave systems we have to return to when rest of snow goes.The snow is melted enough now so that any remaining snow is hard packed-and only melted around the entrances,which led us to 3 possibles.Thanks Ian :)
Ryan this is not an urbexing site ..you dont have to hide anyone's face here.
M
No,its at his request lol,he does some delicate work and cant afford to be recognized,the pic was blanked when he sent it to me after the hike yesterday.Caves are a whole other thing in Nova Scotia,treated like the plague.His face cant be seen,but mine can :D
Heres me.
[quote="Ryan" post=325]No,its at his request lol,he does some delicate work and cant afford to be recognized,the pic was blanked when he sent it.Caves are a whole other thing in Nova Scotia,treated like the plague.His face cant be seen,but mine can :D[/quote]Hahahhah I don't think anyone will recognize him in North Wales :silly:
I post stuff online other than here as well,the pics were sent to me his face marked out for that lol,but it does seem funny :D
OK yesterday was kind of insane.The Black Brook cave was a potential killer in my opinion.As we entered the cave,there is a large pool you must skirt around or go thru.Problem is,in gypsum karst,this room was once circular.Now all you see is 1/2 the room,the lower half has several meters of mud,as proven by a team member going y to his waist in it less than 2 feet from the wall.As we shone lights into the center of the pool,we realized there was a hole,so a rock was tossed into it.I wish I was filming.The rock hit the ole,unplugged some crud,and for 10 seconds or so i looked into an abyss meters deep before the water clouded up.the mud would suck you in and hold you as you slid into the funnel like hole entrance.
But cavers dont stop just because some lame death trap.
We skirted the edge,clambered over a hunk of rotten gypsum (which was over 5 feet water)that crumbled as we went,and seen what no other have(maybe)As well,we found burned wood encased in the gypsum,the video I have isnt clear.We will be back with a boat to check it.And plenty of rubber patches.
More to come ;)
Nice pictures Ryan.:woohoo: