Agenda
1. Chairman’s Welcome
?2. Apologies for Absence
?3. Minutes of the 2022 AGM
a) Accuracy?
b) Matters arising
4. Applications for Membership
None
5. Officer’s Reports
a) Chairman
b) Secretary?
A quiet year on the Secretarial front with nothing to report.
As I am also the BCA Secretary, I have attended nearly all of the meetings over the past year, BCA has had no changes to the Exec in the past year. The BCA Treasurer ends his term of office this year and is not standing again, any volunteers?
There is interest in getting the BCA Rope and Gear Testing Rig reinstalled and working again at some point.
CROW still rumbles on in the background, but nothing is likely to change until there is a change of government.
I am willing to stand again for the position of Secretary,
Allan Richardson
c) Treasurer
Treasurer’s report (Year Ending 31-12-22)
The recently audited accounts show a decrease in funds of £237.96, which leaves CCC’s current bank balance at £6,203.37 as at 31 December 2022.
All but one of the training courses held resulted in a small profit and income was also generated by the sale of Ogof Cnwc/OCAF keys. Various items of equipment for training and conservation/access needs were the main items incurring expenditure as listed in detail in the audit.
Many thanks to Richard for completing the spreadsheets for the 7 very successful courses he held, to John for help when needed, and to Ian Adams once again for his extremely prompt audit.
Mary Rogers (Treasurer)
d) Conservation and Access Officer?
CCC Conservation & Access Officer’s Report
for the year March 2022 to February 2023
COVID
The disease is still widespread but in less dangerous forms, so during the past year a lot of normality
has returned to life.
NATURAL RESOURCES WALES
NRW appears to have persuaded the Welsh Government to end the contract-based CAL mine access
scheme that had been in operation without complaint since 2015. NRW said they would offer an
alternative permissive system, then nothing happened for some months. So I contacted NRW and it
appears they do want to proceed with a new system and they have asking for an updated list of sites,
which has been supplied, and so they now have the ball. It is no longer possible to negotiate one
national access agreement because NRW has split itself up into regional units acting with a degree of
autonomy, so we likely need three or more new regional agreements to replace the one national
agreement that CAL formerly. These may have different T&Cs from one another and we may meet
with different levels of cooperation and acceptance for recreational access from their regions.
NRW has decided to no longer involve itself with ‘managing’ the Mynydd Llangattock caves although
they still have a lease on the Craig y Cilau NNR land. The landowner, Beaufort Estate, understands
perfectly well that Cambrian is now running cave access here instead of NRW. Cambrian has had
one meeting in 2022 with the land agents who are tasked with coming back to us with an outline
access agreement, and in the meanwhile they are content for us to manage cave access in our own
way. We scrapped the NRW permit system as a first move. Keys are issued on a long-term basis to
bona fide caving clubs on payment of a small fee and they should use the caves in a responsible way
consistent with the aims of the previous permit-based system. There is also a day key scheme.
It is disappointing to note that NRW’s corporate plan draft covering the remainder of this decade
makes no mention of access or recreation whilst being long on greening itself and “making its voice
heardâ€. This implies NRW is becoming more evangelical than focused on delivering public goods.
I have not attended any NAFW (National Access Forum Wales) meetings in the past year as these are
just a platform for NRW to present itself, its ideas, and never-ending restructuring to stakeholders
rather than listen to stakeholders in the true spirit of a discussion forum. I do read their minutes and
papers for meetings but have not noticed anything relevant to caving. The meetings have for some
time been over Teams, but more recently they back to meeting in person three times a year in Bangor,
Welshpool and Cardiff. If anyone would like to attend to represent caving then please contact me, but
understand that you will be there to fill a seat and listen, not to contribute to develop or discuss ideas.
Cambrian has applied to NRW for a grant to cover equipment costs to provide live river depth
monitoring at DYO after NRW staff had indicated that grants up to £5K were possible. This was sent
twice by email with no response, then followed up twice by phone with no response, and then I
contacted their general enquiry desk to explain the lack of response. NRW finally responded by
saying they were too busy with existing projects to consider starting a new one.
CAVING JUDICIAL REVIEW
The case ended about a year ago with a compromise where the Welsh Government would look again
at cave access rights following a written submission from BCA. WG did a review and decided on that
basis to take no action to improve cave access due to lack of resources, now not being the right time,
and so on. Thus our opposite numbers fulfilled their undertaking to the Court to carry out a review.
But nothing came of it, no decisions were made, there is nothing to challenge, and there our case
ended. Even though we never asked for the court to rule on the scope of CROW or otherwise
obtained concessions from government via a compromised end to the case, it remains that we took
them to Court but did not see it through. This may bear upon their future disposition towards us
because on the one hand they were bruised, but on the other it was not a knock-out contest either.
They may feel aggrieved and emboldened at the same time which is not a helpful conclusion.
- 2 -
CAVE ACCESS LTD
As noted already under NRW, the CAL mine scheme is not currently running, but we are in negotiation
with NRW about a new scheme which is for all the original sites plus a few new ones in mid-Wales.
Dave Tyson and I completed a survey of the Hendre Ddu slate mine east of Corris last November.
This is well off the beaten track and worth a visit when formal access is restored. We also organised a
surface and underground tour of the mine for local NRW staff which was well received.
I recovered a caver counter from Bryneglwys which had been in there for well over a year just prior to
the scheme ending. Not surprisingly, it is most visited on Saturday afternoons, but there are
occasional Monday visits too that form a pattern: perhaps someone with a project. I recorded a
couple of dozen groups in there over the course of a year which included the 3-month Covid lockdown
at the start of 2021 when there were no recorded visitors.
BRITISH CAVING ASSOCIATION
I attended the April meeting in the absence of David Rose (on an expedition) to update council on how
the CROW case had ended. I leave it to Allan Richardson to report on BCA’s wider agenda.
MLCMAC
See under NRW above. Cambrian has stepped in to manage MLCMAC, to give it access to funds,
banking facilities and eventually a new website. Anyone willing and able to help with running
MLCMAC will be very welcome to join - please get in touch. We held one committee meeting in the
past year by Zoom, and had one physical meeting with the Beaufort Estate land agents. I am trying to
standardize all the cave logbooks using pre-printed waterproof paper assembled into spiral bound
books, which seems to be lasting well. Tough waterproof pencils have also been deployed with these
new books, and seem cave/caver-proof. To make it easier to obtain keys, Adrian Fawcett and I have
now have a small stock of keys. Barry Burn is also to be issued with a set of day-loan keys. Malcolm
Reid continues to act as “key secretary†and remains the primary contact for keys. We have spare
locks and there are no plans to change any of the key types in the near future.
CAPEL. Nick de Gare Pitt has kindly agreed to act as the warden. There were 10 trips in 2022
involving 28 people. The logbook has been changed to the new type. The key is still the same and list
of keyholders and leaders is on the Cambrian website for anyone wanting a trip in there.
OCAF. There has been a serious rock-fall at the entrance last year most of which landed on the
quarry floor but some of the roof by the gate came down blocking off the drainage of water from
around the gate. This has been dug out to stop it ponding up, and the unwanted water now drains
away to the quarry floor. The lock is now the same key as for Ogof Cnwc. There have been some
issues with the padlock sticking which have been resolved with the new drainage, also some petty
vandalism concerning the padlock. The old curved metal locking bar on the inside of the gate has
been changed to a similar one but with a “Derbyshire bolt†at the opposite end to the padlock. This
enables entrapped cavers (due to lock failure etc) to escape by removing two nuts with spanners that
are provided next to the logbook. John Sheehy is now the warden.
CNWC. This is now the same key as OCAF. New style logbook installed. Nothing unusual to report.
Stuart France is the warden.
DAREN. New style logbook yet to be installed at the Big Chamber. Nothing unusual to report. Adrian
Fawcett is the warden.
AGGY. New style logbook. Nothing unusual to report. In March to October 2022 there were 67
groups and 219 cavers. John Stevens and Barry Burn are joint wardens, also covering Eglwys Faen.
EGLWYS. The ‘caver group’ counter in the inner chamber is still functioning. This is in lieu of a
logbook. The cave was visited on 34 dates in 2020, 74 dates in 2021, and 123 dates in January to
October 2022. The steel ladder and steel cable beside it have been inspected by me. A knotted nylon
rope has appeared next to the ladder and the whole arrangement is OK.
- 3 -
OFD
The “duty officer†system at SWCC has finished, so instead you now need to apply in advance for a
code to open a key safe to get a cave key for a particular date. See SWCC website. The ticket board
call-out system also seems to have ended and a phone app to replace this is in development for
anyone not making their own call-out arrangements. Footfall at the cave is back to normal, i.e. high.
DYO
The £5 per visit charge system for cavers towards conservation and access generally appears to be
working well. There is a proposal, supported by the landowner, to install a permanent water depth
gauge at Pot Sump to reflect the water level in the large lake where the river can rise to the roof and
prevent access or egress. The general idea is to send hourly readings over the cave rescue phone
cable to the outside and thence by radio to SWCC and eventually on to a live webpage. Rescue sees
this as useful not only because absolute water levels and trends are then available to view but also it
tests the phone line continuously providing reassurance that it will work when needed for a rescue.
DRAENEN
I attended the 6-monthly PDCMG meeting in June along with the EGM in October at which the group
adopted a new policy to ‘consider’ other entrances. They have not actually considered anything since
then other than considering that a written proposal from a member club which expresses an interest in
considering the use and management of additional entrances is required before the group considers
any entrances. No member club has yet proposed the adoption of any new entrances nor the
opposite which is to continue to live with various unadopted entrances. PDCMG posits the EGM
outcome simply as being open to discuss any future request to resolve the long-running entrances
issue rather than as an instruction from stakeholders to commence resolving the entrances issue -
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
There has been no progress with Grade 5 survey publication or its coverage. One of the main
contributors to the survey in the past, Arthur Millet, has sadly passed away recently, and he will be
remembered for his tenacity, endeavours and oft times good humour. There is no progress with bat
surveys which would best be carried out via the Nunnery Entrance and Drws Cefn which lead to the
areas most popular with bats. There has been no progress with restructuring PDCMG as a limited
company so it can sign a contract for access as a legal entity rather than relying on personal trustees
as at present.
PDCMG’s letters to the landowning company are going unanswered. Mrs Lewis took over as a
director from the late Mr Brian Lewis in 2020. Mrs Jones became a director when Mr Peter Jones
resigned in March 2022. In terms of “persons with significant control†of the company, the two current
directors declare they own “25% to 50%†of the company shares each. There are 2 shares in issue,
so that is one each. The company has no employees and has a net worth of £6198 after subtracting
long-term owings from long-term assets such as the land purchase (i.e. £2459 from £8657).
OGOF GOFAN / CASTLEMARTIN RANGE WEST
Cambrian’s access scheme has been used only lightly in 2022. Anyone wanting to visit should obtain
a landowner permit through me about 2 weeks in advance as the site is a tank firing range on which
training schedules can change at short notice resulting in loss of public access to the coast path and
thus the cave. Also call the Range’s answerphone on 01646 662367 on the day before your visit to
confirm that the coast path route to the cave is still open. This link also provides the firing schedule:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/castlemartin-firing-notice--2/
Access to Range West to explore for new caves is a different system. During Covid anyone selfcertifying
they had read the site rules and Health And Safety documentation online was accepted for
an annual permit. That has reverted, following instances of the T&Cs being broken, to the old system
where people have to attend an H&S briefing meeting in person to get an annual permit. This paper is
presented at the guard house to obtain a day badge which is worn while you are walking the range.
- 4 -
POTENTIAL NAME CHANGE FOR CCC
I still have the domain name ‘caving.wales’ and suggest that we consider again a change of name
which is more modern in style (in line with the kayaking, hockey, swimming and other national bodies)
as it more clearly communicates what Cambrian does and implicitly suggests that it is the national
representative body for caving in Wales. The present rather verbose name that harks back to the
medieval boundary politics of the Marcher Lords confuses many non-cavers and so Cambrian is often
though of by them as simply another caving club and then is treated as sub-national in scope.
GOING FORWARD
I am willing to stand again in the same role.
Stuart France, CCC Conservation and Access Officer
25th February 2023
e) Training Officer
Training Officer Report to CCC AGM 2023
The last year has seen a return to normality with a variety of workshops.
There have been several SRT workshops run by a variety of CICs with a broad range of novices to SRT rescues techniques being taught. There are two further workshops in March and April this year. Both are nearly full but please get in touch if you are interested in joining in.
There is another cave photography workshop in April this year run by Mark Burkey (one space remains) and similarly a CSG workshop being run by Tarquin also in April.
Cave geology walks have been really well received by those that have attended but seem hard to fill. I am discussing this with BBNPA geology expert Alan Bowring to see how to resolve this.
I am happy to stand again
Rich Hill
f) Equipment and Techniques Officer?
No report received
g) Cave Registrar
Cave Registrar's Report for 2022-23
This has been a quiet year for reports of major cave finds: the most active diggers and surveyors appearing to have formed omertàs and preferring their work left cloaked in obscurity (albeit sometime barred by well engineered, tell-tale, surface portals to their secret worlds). This would seem to be an unwelcome return to the old Craig a Ffynnon/Tardiadd Rhymney attitude induced by the more recent debacles around Draenen and Dan yr Ogof and the ill-advised attitudes to caves and cavers emanating from Cadw and NRW. I hope for a mellowing of attitudes which will allow the Registry to be the full and accurate record which I aspire to maintain.
Nevertheless, there have been reports of new finds from Pembrokeshire, Vale of Glamorgan, and around Merthyr from my regular correspondents, as well as several welcome new ones, and it would be wrong not to mention indirect reports of inadvertent breakthroughs by road engineers in the course of their work. Increased online access to old journals has also revealed holes in (or, rather, not in) the Register which I have endeavoured to fill (or, rather, illuminate).
The mapping software was updated during the year (resulting in the appearance of a Ukrainian flag in the credits). The menu system was modified too, not least because some providers of maps and overlays withdrew their offerings and had to be replaced. Our webmaster found and removed the limitation on disc space for the Registry: a welcome change which allows for increased photographic coverage, and the prospect of, for example, surveys displayed in a 'slippy map tile' overlay.
I thank my regular correspondents, but regret to note that NRW are not amongst them, having failed to follow up their apparent interest last year, despite several approaches from me. I welcome the fact that several new people reported finds this year, but am sad to say that Cris Ebbs, the producer of the Caves of North Wales section of the CCR website, submitted his final updates in November.
I am happy to continue as Registrar but would welcome assistants who might like to cover their own areas (not least, North Wales), suggest changes (big or small), or might even aspire to replace me...
Martin Laverty
h) Webmaster
Webmaster’s Report
A relatively quiet year on the website, with changes being made throughout the year to publicise training courses, geological walks and other newsworthy events. I have also co-ordinated mailshots to member clubs using the Cambrian account to bring the availability of training courses to member clubs’ attention. I’m currently working on expanding the MLCMAC page to formally adopt the access restriction pages that are currently hosted on the CSS website.
I am willing to continue in the role
John Sheehy
Webmaster
i) Newsletter Editor
No newsletter has been produced last year.
j)Mines Advisor
Recreational Mine Exploration Officer report
In the many years that I held the position of Legal and Insurance Officer I only had one inquiry, that being opinion on the drafting of an access agreement. Since the abolition of that office and the creation of the new position I have had two inquires already in that short time frame.
The first was from a consultant preparing a Risk Assessment for Network Rail relative to work scheduled on a section of between Bow Street village to just north of Llandre in central Wales. He had my contact details from the CCC website. I was able to help with information on mines in the area.
The second was me being contacted by a diver who is a user of Cambrian Slate Mine Glyn Ceriog. He reported and earth bank about 2 metres high appearing which made it very difficult to access the mine while carrying heavy equipment. I visited the site and found it as described, but made contact with the son of the landowner who is a Mr Dave Hinton who owns a sawmill at Oswestry. I was assured that it was part of recent forestry work and not in any way intended to block access to the mine to which his father had no objection. This is useful as up this time most people were unaware of the sites ownership.
6. Reports from other groups:
These may be delivered at the meeting.
a) FODCCAG
b) Welsh Mines Society
c) NWCRO?
d) SMWCRT
SMWCRT Report for Cambrian Caving Council AGM 2023
In 2022 SMWCRT was involved in 8 Rescue incidents, a decrease of 1 on the previous year. The
rescues for this year are listed below starting on the fifth day of the New Year â€" and it turned
out to be a busy first week!
Date Location Details
05/01/22 â€"
06/01/22 Dog Rescue Pontycymmer SMWCRT were contacted by owner of dog via
MREW. Her son had been walking the dog and
it got lost in a hole at about 2pm on Monday
03/01/2022. Contact was made with the owner
by phone on Wednesday evening and SMWCRT
agreed to attend at 9am on Thursday morning.
A team of 3 walked up to the entrance of the
Mine Level (collapsed) guided by the son. We
deployed the pole camera but had no sign of
the dog. We were then joined by members of
the Fell & Moorland Terrier Club who had
apparently been digging the previous day. They
resumed digging. SMWCRT made a decision to
stand down and as we started to leave, the
dog (Bert) came back to the surface to be
retrieved.
3 TM deployed, 3 on Standby.
08/01/22 Ogof Daren Cilau 2 Males who were inexperienced cavers were
lost when visiting Daren Cilau and attempting a
through trip from the main entrance to Ogof
Cnwc. They failed to find their route in the area
of Busman's Holiday and started to return to
the main entrance. They became tired and cold
and were moving very slowly. The missing
cavers were found in the entrance series and
were both extremely tired. One was mildly
hypothermic and took some time to rewarm on
return to base. Their clothing was not suitable
for this trip. Other agencies involved-DP Police.
31 TM deployed, 7 on Standby.
09/01/22 Ogof Clogwyn The casualty dislocated his hip whilst climbing
up into the entrance of Ogof Clogwyn. He was
stabilised by colleagues and then was attended
by a small group of SMWCRT Team members.
A (Welsh Ambulance) WAST Paramedic was
guided to site to assist, a SMWCRT Advanced
First Aider was also en route. Longtown MRT
carried the casualty to a waiting Ambulance.
7 TM deployed, 5 on Standby.
18/01/22 -20/01/22 Dog Rescue Nantygwyddon _
Tonypandy Mt. A dog fell down a rift, it could be seen by using
a camera on a drain rod but it was not possible
to reach him as the rift was very narrow. The
availability of team members during the day
was limited, hence digging commenced late
afternoon and continued until nearly midnight.
After 2 days digging there would have been a
meeting to discuss ongoing process but dog
was released just after the Team left on the
second day by Drain Rod employees. Fire and
Rescue & USAR involved.
17 TM deployed.
21/05/22 - 22/05/22 Ogof Ffynnon Ddu One Male and one Femail entered OFD1 at
11:30. They were seen in OFD1 at 12:30. They
couldn't find the climb up out of the Maypole
Inlet canyon, so they retreated to exit out of
Cwm Dwr. Subsequently they were unable to
find the route out, so correctly chose to sit at
Piccadilly. They were met by a Southampton
Uni trip doing Top Entrance -> OFD1 and
escorted out of Cwm Dwr just as our 3 search
teams were going underground.
21 TM deployed.
22/05/22 Dog Rescue Ogof Gam / Agen
Allwedd Duffy (female Cockerpoo / Labradoodle
weighing approx 7kg) entered a small rift near
Agen Allwedd and became trapped. With
appropriate help the dog was rescued
successfully. No real problems except that our
pole camera was out of action, but an
alternative access route was found. USAR did
not attend but their camera equipment was
available for use.
15 TM deployed, 2 on Standby
17/09/22 Cwm Dwr 2 (OFD) 2 Males were trapped behind fallen boulder as
they were passing through a restricted space.
The rock fell from the ceiling and two cavers
were trapped on the wrong side of it, unable to
pass by. The rock was reduced in size using
plugs and feathers and the cavers were
released.
12 TM deployed, 2 on Standby.
26/12/22 - 28/12/22 Dog fell down slip rift by Varteg
(near Blaenavon) Longtown MRT, together with Fire & Rescue,
had already been on site and retrieved one of
two dogs that had entered the hole, however
were unable to reach the second dog, hence
transferred the incident to SMWCRT.
Next morning a team of 6 attended the site.
The hole was a typical slip rift, less than 30cm
wide between solid rock walls, with no line of
sight to the bottom. The dog could not be seen
and only very occasionally be very faintly
heard. A small team member was lowered into
the hole by rope but the rift was found to be
too narrow to descend safely. An inspection
camera was then lowered, but the dog still
could not be seen. The search was called off
for the day due to severe weather conditions.
A team of 5 returned the following day to
continue with the Fire and Rescue service. A
drain company had also been on site but still
no visual of the dog. 2 SMWCRT team
members attempted another descent of the
rift. Still no visible or audible sign of the dog
so unfortunately a decision was made to stand
the team down. The dog owner was informed
that unfortunately there was nothing more
SMWCRT could do, so after 45 hours the
incident was closed. The dog’s owner was told
to get back in touch if they saw their dog over
the next few days. The owner was grateful for
efforts made by all agencies involved.
11 TM deployed.
BCRC now ask Teams to record their training hours as well as Rescue incidents on their new
platform and I regularly update this site as Rescues occur. In 2021 we totalled 2070 training
hours; in 2022 we totalled 2351.
Dan Thorne
SMWCRT Chairman
e) GCRG
f) OFDCAG
OFDCAG Report
The new permit and key issuing system is now fully in operation. The numbers visiting the cave have returned to their normal high level.
The NRW whilst no longer directly involved in running the cave, still attend the twice yearly meetings of the OFDCAG.
Allan Richardson
Secretary OFDCAG
g) DYOCAG
h) PDCMG
i) CMT
j) SC&MC
k) MLCMAC
l)Ogof Marros update
Update on access, incidents and any other matters regarding Ogof Marros. Reported dated 03 03 2023.
Please note information about the cave is in the public domain on the website ogofmarros.uk .
The 1st boulder choke (breakthrough point in the entrance passage) has become dangerously mobile and has blocked access. A visiting party exploring in the company of the digging team experienced major movement and settlement on their way out, though fortunately a safe exit was made by all. Several weeks later, a high grade survey being undertaken at this time was halted when it was found that the boulder movement had migrated upwards to the very top of the choke and the way through was blocked.
Subsequent trips were made by the digging team core and it was found that the problem was bigger than initially thought. More gear was ferried in when time and funds allowed and consolidation work started whilst the surveying moved to the original breakthrough area where some minor discovery's were made. We are nearly at the stage where we can finally push the boulder choke again, but previous trips witnessed some very troubling rumbles that have yet to be identified. What we thought was a stable wall in fact turned out to be mobile and is collapsing into the breakthrough point. Its removal is unthinkable and we are therefore left with scaff work to carry out.
We will update the Council when this has been stabilised and the cave can be open for bonafide cavers.
The landowner is fully up to date and supportive with all events, actions and policies over the years and he and his family are still very excited with what is happening. Support from the local community and as far away as Pembroke dock has been reported by the landowner.
Thank you,
Philip Knight
7. BCA Matters
Reported under the Secretarial report.
8. Election of CCC Officers and co-option of Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Chairman
Secretary
Treasurer
Conservation
E & T
Training
Mines Advisor
Cave Registrar
Webmaster
Newsletter
9. AOB
To Rename the “Mines Advisor†post as “Recreational Mining Officerâ€
10. Date and Location of next CCC Annual General Meeting
March 2024 location, date and time tbc