So, here's my first trip report.
I went straight from work to Minera car park arriving a hour early but planned on meeting Rich W and Lee at 6pm. With half hour to spare a bear (me) went into the woods just above the car park and came across picture 1. 6pm came round and the lads turned up as we got out of the car Richard T turned up followed by Ste with the news that it was just us on this trip. Already for 6.30 Pete turns up, quick chat with him before we headed down separate holes.
I offered to rig the pitch so i could use my new rope :lol: . All down safely we crawled through the tube and headed to the 'secret passage'. At the bottom of the secret passage we looked up a vertical internal shaft. Somehow,It was me who had to climb up, luckily there was a few places i could put protection. So off i went up the shaft on my first ever lead climb, it was luckily for the lads below that he bear went into the woods ;) . At the top of the climb i was greeted with picture 3 and some rope already rigged. With the rope,knots and anchors checked i lowered the rope down and the lads srt'd up. We headed along the level (pic4) till we came across some ladders and another shaft (pic 5&6) unable to climb this shaft we continued along the level. We came to a collapse 100m along the level and possibly an abandoned dig as there was just a bar and a few pulleys. On closer inspection by Richard T this could be a collapsed stope. We had a quick poke at it and moved some rock for more rock to come down, so at this point we decided it was time to head the pub but by the time we got there it was shut :(
Where's the Pictures gaz :huh:
[quote="mike leahy" post=40383]Where's the Pictures gaz :huh:[/quote]
Poor Internet, took a while to up load.
Most of the pictures you will have to turn your phone
Nice piccies
:lol:
It was a good climb though,with only a few whimpers of distress :lol:
Steve Kennedy was asking about a Grand Turk survey or info on uk.caving - I doubt if anything will be posted by members of NWCC, but I had a poke around a few years ago so can answer some questions.
The rise up from Grand Turk passage to the mine workings was almost certainly dug from above, but modern cavers must has ascended the shaft from below to rig the rope. When I first looked at this over 10 years ago the shaft had an electron ladder hanging to the floor from about 1/2 way up the shaft. It was hung off some kind of bolt. There was a piece of static caving 'tat' hanging down part way - but not reaching the floor.
Not knowing the state of play of the anchor or the provenance of the rope made me fairly nervous to prussik up it, but I used a piece of climbing rope attached to an anchor to safeguard the ascent. As it happened on reaching the top of the rope I saw it was rebelayed via a good anchor and the rope showed little signs of wear. Ahead the rope disappeared though a hole in large stack of railway sleepers and crawling through this entered a mined passage. There was a heavy steel plate that could close the hole in the timber-work - presumably for air control.
The passage was generally walking height and turned after a while sharp right. It carried on, with a few piles of rubble more or less straight. The was a rise with some decaying ladders on the right hand side. I had planned to bolt this and see what happened at the top, but never got around to it. The main passage carries on to a collapse which is due to rubble falling down a shaft. it *might* be possible to dig around this on the LHS using a bit of scaff and board to prevent run it.
On a later visit the original rope had been replaced by a proper Y-hang and the electron ladder left coiled up on the floor nearby.
There is a sketch plan in the book 'limestone and caves of wales' by Trevor Ford - its not very detailed but indicates the the mined passage is part of the upper day level - see attachment. I think it is on the white vein as detailed on minera plans - but a lot of detail is missing.
The interesting point is that the rise almost certainly connected to the surface and would make a through trip. If you head along the old railway track (like you were going to Cabin Shaft), but carry on further there is a gate on the RHS and a minor path towards an old acheson lime kiln. Near a copse of trees, hidden under soil and vegetation is a steel plate with an access hatch. In side the hatch is a 100' shaft. There is a bit of steel ladder near the top (dodgy) and some steel wires hanging down. Abseiling down leads to an earth floor with a large tree trunk. I suspect if you removed the latter and dug down you would enter a horizontal passage which would connect with the Grand Turk rise (the one which need bolting). I think this surface shaft might have something to do with GCC.
Of course all this area will have been investigated by NWCC and be safely in the hands of Peter Appleton and close confidents - the chances of it seeing daylight are absolutely zero...
Hope this is of help,
Dave
Rigging was spot on. Free climb up the shaft was impressive. All round great trip B)
[quote="Stones" post=40382]So, here's my first trip report.
So off i went up the shaft on my first ever lead climb, it was luckily for the lads below that he bear went into the woods ;) . At the top of the climb i was greeted with picture 3 and some rope already rigged. With the rope,knots and anchors checked i lowered the rope down and the lads srt'd up.[/quote]
This is interesting - the rope with the Y hang was at the top of the pitch near the air dam and coiled up rather than left hanging down - I wonder why, and how did the group that left it there get back down? As you note there is no way out along the passage - unless someone rigged a rope down the rise. But then that implies the rise must reach the surface elsewhere and not where the lidded shaft I mentioned before is located. Hmm time to dig out my distrox and do a bit of surveying,,,
Dave
This is what I said too dave. There must be a way in else where
Also felt like fresh air at rise
I've got a portable maypole
this s the white vien 40 years ago we went down the shaft and slid into the level just 1 ft of grap the level crosses
the diesal stopes high in the roof you could absail down if bolted it then turns towards grand turk and if memory serves me wellthe level opened into the grand turk sump high up on the left hand side just before you climb down to the sump not easy to see there was a continuation of the left just over the rock bridge backfilled but did not investigate the other side of the shaft is blocked so cannot reach daylight by the straem. mick
I have had a quick recheck of the rough position of where I think the un-climbed shaft in question is on the surface and it definitely is near the old lime kilns. Of course I am relying on the correct scaling of the map in the book, but a couple of cross references place the surface location at about SJ26165172 which corresponds to that area. Might be worth a surface poke about - it's possible that there is another shaft nearby to the one I descended and that would be more likely as I don't think the upper day level was 200' down.
I have marked the area on the attached map
Dave
I have found some of my photos from the exploration of the lidded shaft near to the limekiln which may connect to grand turk.
These show:
1) view looking down the shaft with the ladder and wires to some scaff
2) view of the hatch from outside
3) view from bottom of shaft looking up
4) tree and bits of scaff at the bottom of the shaft
5) tree and bits of scaff from a better perspective
6) more detail from inside of the top of the shaft and ginging
enjoy!
Dave
this is not what i remember you go pass cabinshaft away from the carpark and through the last gate and on the same side as cabin shaft close to the path there is a clump of silverbirch trees and in between there is the shaft it may be covered over so this mat still be open at the bottom as it is not the one you have in your photo,s I may need to take you over.mick
I am sure you are right Mick, the shaft must be fairly close to the gate as I measured the BCRA grade 5 NWCC have on the CCC site using the bat castle on the whim shaft (Ragman vein) as a reference point (SJ2568351786) and that gives a gridref for the footway as SJ2618151724. This is within 35m of the shaft I descended near the lime kiln, but could be closer to the main path.
Interestingly there is a note on the NWCC website:
http://www.northwalescavingclub.org.uk/nwccproject9.htm
which states "OLD1 Grand Turk passage was re-discovered by NWCC after penetrating a boulder choke reached from Cabin Shaft (a more direct entrance is now available). Care should be taken with collapses in parts of the old workings". There is a picture of a guy on the high level traverse above the diesel stopes. I have been over this and then headed up some ropes towards the upper levels - but I guess there may have been a way on to the top of the 'shaft of interest'. The fact that NWCC state that there is a more direct route implies that there must be a surface connection.
I have some annotated plans of the workings from Cris - these are based on the abandonment plans from the records office. What would be really nice would be to superimpose an OS grid as that would make it easier to work out what shaft is what. But that needs a good fossick around with a good GPS to get the location of all the shafts and (more importantly) be able to match some of the shafts to the plans. Maybe a winter job when the vegetation has died down.
Dave
Dave
The more direct route will be the one up in the woods that drops in directly by the shaft into the crawl to Grand Turk. I was on the trip when that entrance was dug open from the inside. From memory it is above the lime kilns, in the woods. We called it the great escape entrance as we popped up in the woods like coming out of a secret tunnel. We went in via Cabin Shaft and had to dig through a run in to get there so were quite pleased to find a short cut out.
[quote="LesW" post=40422]The more direct route will be the one up in the woods that drops in directly by the shaft into the crawl to Grand Turk. I was on the trip when that entrance was dug open from the inside. From memory it is above the lime kilns, in the woods. We called it the great escape entrance as we popped up in the woods like coming out of a secret tunnel. We went in via Cabin Shaft and had to dig through a run in to get there so were quite pleased to find a short cut out.[/quote]
Les, a few of questions.
On the route from Cabin shaft you head round the back of boundary shaft and along a convoluted route, which IIRC involves a short rope or ladder pitch and a squeeze through natural. You end up halfway up a massive stope with a long scaffold pipe to bridge the gap (complete with traverse protection ropes, cross this and then I think you follow round to the right to another stope with a rope heading diagonally upwards - probably about 30m. Do you recall going up this? I asked Dewi about it and he said it led to a dangerous collapse, but I was dubious as a lot of effort has been made in bolting the route.
When the entrance was big dug from the inside was this vertical or horizontal and do you know if they were capping it? Was it close to the path that runs above the kiln or did you have to bash through trees/bramble. (The reason I ask is there are a lot of bumps and hollows around there and even a block search of a 200m x 200m square would take a while). I know its a big ask for you to try and remember the details from some time ago, but it would help limit the search. We could, of course, just maypole the shaft and work our way out - or I could retrace my original trip.
Having a entrance at this end would be really helpful in getting down to the diesel stopes as it avoids the long drag from cabin and also makes a nice through route for Grand Turk
Dave
This does sound a great idea
Just copied this from CPAT
Grand Turk at SJ26305170, where a chimney base and stonework remains of the winding engine house are hidden in the underegrowth.
Also been in that area today and came across two shafts. Pics 1&2 are the same shaft at sj26275168 and pic 3 is at Sj26345160
[quote="DaveT" post=40424]
Les, a few of questions.
On the route from Cabin shaft you head round the back of boundary shaft and along a convoluted route, which IIRC involves a short rope or ladder pitch and a squeeze through natural. You end up halfway up a massive stope with a long scaffold pipe to bridge the gap (complete with traverse protection ropes, cross this and then I think you follow round to the right to another stope with a rope heading diagonally upwards - probably about 30m. Do you recall going up this? I asked Dewi about it and he said it led to a dangerous collapse, but I was dubious as a lot of effort has been made in bolting the route.
[/quote]
So, it was a long time ago and I was there with Mike Smith and some Wessex. I don't recall the route, it is quite mazy, but I know our "guide" ended up back at Cabin Shaft, so we had to go around again.
I found the route to Grand Turk, but I do remember stepping across a stope to get in to the passage with a run in. I don't remember the details though. We dug through the run in to get to the chamber that led to the pitch down to the crawl into Grand Turk
[quote="DaveT" post=40424]
When the entrance was big dug from the inside was this vertical or horizontal and do you know if they were capping it? Was it close to the path that runs above the kiln or did you have to bash through trees/bramble. (The reason I ask is there are a lot of bumps and hollows around there and even a block search of a 200m x 200m square would take a while). I know its a big ask for you to try and remember the details from some time ago, but it would help limit the search. We could, of course, just maypole the shaft and work our way out - or I could retrace my original trip.
Having a entrance at this end would be really helpful in getting down to the diesel stopes as it avoids the long drag from cabin and also makes a nice through route for Grand Turk
Dave[/quote]
The exit (because it was opened from the inside) was vertical, up through some mud and roots. Whilst we were down in Grand Turk those that stayed behind noticed a skeleton that one of our members (a vet) identified as a dog, this suggested that there must be an old entrance nearby. A look around identified what appeared to be a slope of earth that might have come down from above. Apparently they dug it away with their hands and more fell down, eventually they had opened a short shaft up against a rock edge, to a root and earth blockage. They inserted Mike Smith up into it upside down, and he kicked his way through the roots to make a hole out into the woods. They then sat in the chamber waited until we returned when they spoofed us that we had to return all the way to Cabin Shaft, through all the squalor of the run in that we had dug through. We were muddy and wet and lacking humour so were very pleased to discover they had managed to open an exit. We popped out in the woods and it was like the film, The Great Escape, as we came out of the "tunnel" one at a time.
Thanks LesW & Stones,
It sounds like it may be quite tricky to locate the shaft Les came up as its likely to collapse - but a potter around above the kiln with some string to mark areas covered may be worthwhile. I did have a wander around a while ago and came across the shaft (Marked Open Pit) covered with mesh as reported by Stones. I think this is too far away to link directly underground - but it would provide a useful data point mapping the old plan to the OS grid if it is definitively Grand Turk.
Mick phoned me up and explained in detail about the shaft he descended with Bob Sheppard - this is very close to the main path (old railway track) just to the right of the gate in a copse of trees. It is covered by a lid and probably leaves, soil whatever. It was a straight drop of about 80' and a passage leads to a rock bridge above the diesel stopes. I guess if we went down this we could work our way over and probably find the escape route used by Les. Once we know where the hole is I think we should get a bit of 500m twinwall tube and stabilise it - not sure NWCC would approve - but sod it :-)
Dave
Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible
[quote="LesW" post=40444]Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible[/quote]
Well if the upper area is that close to the surface I am sure UCET could dig a parallel shaft and claim that to avoid any issues - unless NWCC want to play the GCC games :-)
Dave
[quote="DaveT" post=40445][quote="LesW" post=40444]Where I came out was subsequently "claimed" by NWCC and gated. Pretty sure it's still accessible[/quote]
Well if the upper area is that close to the surface I am sure UCET could dig a parallel shaft and claim that to avoid any issues - unless NWCC want to play the GCC games :-)
Dave[/quote]
But you know NWCC own all of Minera... :whistle:
Me and Tom went down a shaft the other week about 100m to the left from g t and there was a dead dog at the bottom of that wonder if this is the same one. We crawled around some of the holes and went down one squeeze and we could definitely feel a draft.
[quote="Stevekennedy" post=40453]Me and Tom went down a shaft the other week about 100m to the left from g t and there was a dead dog at the bottom of that wonder if this is the same one. We crawled around some of the holes and went down one squeeze and we could definitely feel a draft.[/quote]
Do you mean 100m from the 'blue plastic pipe' entrance or the Grand Turk shaft mentioned by Stones...
Dave
I have dug some but it’s 600mm
No. It’s concrete capped but has a triangle hole in the top. It’s about 60 feet I think.
I don’t have any pictures of the top.
[quote="Stevekennedy" post=40466]No. It’s concrete capped but has a triangle hole in the top. It’s about 60 feet I think.
I don’t have any pictures of the top.[/quote]
Here's some pictures of it
[quote="Stones" post=40473][quote="Stevekennedy" post=40466]No. It’s concrete capped but has a triangle hole in the top. It’s about 60 feet I think.
I don’t have any pictures of the top.[/quote]
Here's some pictures of it[/quote]
Thanks for that. I think this is footway shaft - I don't think it connects anywhere interesting without some digging and there are more interesting areas to dig in Minera :lol:
Dave
Hi, Been reading the treads on this topic. Me and my brother are the ones who put the ladder up the shaft at the end of the Grand Turk passage. Loss my bottle to go any further up as had no protection at the time.It was quite a while before we returned and by that time someone had climbed it and put a rope down. We went up and had a hour digging the end of the passage, plenty of rocks falling down this rift passage. We went some months later and the rope had gone. Also did a through trip from Cabin Shaft to the Bear Pit entrance before it was dug out and it had branches across. Been down the Shaft with the dog down this weekend. Did you come across the streamway with the small white waterfall in? Got some photos of the passage where the white water fall is. We climb the rope climbs at the end of the white vain some years ago and it leads to a horrible boulder choke. My brother heard it joined to the mine passage at the end of the Grand Turk passage we were digging in but not to sure if it does.